uPortal IRC Logs-2008-01-29

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[13:16:36 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> howdy folks
[13:16:45 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> hi
[13:17:04 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN>
[13:17:07 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> quick question: where are the template files stored?? (the ones getting called by <xsl:apply-template>)
[13:17:29 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> huh?
[13:17:36 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> are you talking uportal 2.X?
[13:17:39 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> hehe
[13:17:39 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> or gary's new theme?
[13:17:44 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> unfortunely 2.x
[13:17:45 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN>
[13:17:45 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> hihi
[13:17:48 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> (need some context here)
[13:17:51 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> it is all one big file
[13:17:54 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> because the new one looks so much nicer
[13:18:03 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> wait
[13:18:19 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> so the default 2.x theme or the new theme being worked on for 3.0?
[13:18:22 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> default
[13:18:25 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> 2.x
[13:18:32 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> ok
[13:18:34 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> yeah
[13:18:36 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> I can't work with the theme for 3.0 just yet
[13:18:38 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> the theme is one big xsl theme
[13:18:39 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> :/
[13:18:45 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> so one file
[13:19:09 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> ok
[13:19:12 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> where is it?
[13:20:03 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> in the same file you see the xsl:apply-templates call
[13:20:09 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> it is just one big file
[13:20:57 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> hmm
[13:21:19 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> I'm assuming you're editing xhtml-theme.xsl or some such ( I can never remember the file name )
[13:21:26 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> <xsl:apply-templates select="content"/>
[13:21:30 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> yup
[13:21:51 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> yeah ... so there should be a template match="content" somewhere in that file
[13:21:58 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> ohh
[13:22:12 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> like this? <xsl:template match="layout">
[13:22:17 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> that tag?
[13:22:59 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> yup
[13:23:04 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> this looks like BASIC: with the whole GOTOs in the same file
[13:23:07 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> so that template would match a <layout> tag
[13:23:16 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> except not
[13:23:30 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> say I'm in <xsl:template match="layout">
[13:23:45 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> y
[13:23:53 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> and the XML looks like <layout><content/><content/><content/></layout>
[13:24:01 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> calling <xsl:apply-templates select="content"/>
[13:24:15 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> would run <xsl:template match="content"> 3 times
[13:24:23 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> once on each content element
[13:24:26 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> hmmmm
[13:24:29 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> interesting
[13:24:57 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> I would HIGHLY recommend going through http://www.w3schools.com/xsl/xsl_languages.asp
[13:25:18 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> ya
[13:25:18 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> or some other basic XSL tutorial
[13:25:23 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> I guess I should
[13:25:41 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> I hope I didn't have to get into XSL that much
[13:25:47 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> apparently I'll have to
[13:25:48 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> lol
[13:25:51 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> hoped*
[13:25:51 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> well that tutorial isn't too in depth
[13:26:08 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> but it is good to be able to navigate the XSL document
[13:26:38 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> how would a Py-uPortal or Ruby-uPortal look like? hehe
[13:27:01 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> lol ... not much like uPortal
[13:27:06 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> hehe
[13:27:10 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> and probably not able to handle 1mil+ user isntalls
[13:27:14 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> haha
[13:27:40 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> maybe it's because of the whole file structure it all seems so... so... confusing
[13:27:41 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> lol
[13:27:53 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN>
[13:27:57 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> yeah
[13:28:01 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> well I agree
[13:28:13 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> the file structure related to the layout and skins is very confusing
[13:28:20 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> and the XSL document itself is very confusing
[13:28:26 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> you have files for that all over the place
[13:28:28 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> things we are addressing for 3.0
[13:28:33 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> sweet
[13:28:34 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN>
[13:28:55 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> $1,000,000 question: why Java/XSL?
[13:28:57 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> hehe
[13:29:33 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> why not?
[13:30:17 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> so why Java ....
[13:30:42 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> from what I've gathered from many devs, they flee from Java...
[13:30:46 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> it fits the bill for a large, scalable enterprise web-application that can run on most any platform and there is a huge experience base
[13:30:59 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> heh ... which devs and what do they develop?
[13:31:11 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> I'm a designer gone coder (and wanting to go more into dev than design actually... although I enjoy the whole UI design)
[13:31:15 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> webapps
[13:31:30 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> I understand Java on the eyes of portability
[13:31:34 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> so there are many tools out there and each has its function
[13:31:44 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> that was its power at its peak
[13:31:50 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> I'm not one to get into a Java vs PHP vs Ruby vs etc...
[13:31:56 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> oh now please
[13:32:00 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> no*
[13:32:06 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> but I still haven't seen the Java peak people talk about
[13:32:24 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> it seems to me that java development is still growing quite steadily
[13:32:26 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> hmmm... interesting
[13:32:39 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> also remember uPortal started back in 1999
[13:32:45 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> as for XSL
[13:32:46 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> true
[13:33:01 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> that gets into the way the uPortal rendering pipeline works
[13:33:02 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> in 99 there were no other trusted/tried langs out there
[13:33:10 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> for this kind of enterprise
[13:33:13 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> but XSL provides very nice stream based capabilities
[13:34:10 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> which translates into making it easier to add caching at certain layers, perform multiple transformations from layout -> HTML and dynamic inject content into the layout
[13:34:19 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> from my standpoint, from someone who enjoys coding and wants to learn more, but usually works with frontends/UIs, I think what "scared" me in uPortal was it's non-standard framework and how "messy" the code "looks" << (lol very important for me)
[13:34:32 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> very understandable
[13:34:38 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> if I try to "view source" from a uportal page... it doesn't help me at all lol
[13:34:48 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> what would you qualify as "non-standard'?
[13:35:22 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> yeah ... the portal by default removes unneeded white space, which makes the html a bit hard to read
[13:35:27 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> the code that the backend "spits out" is not "W3C-approved" (for the most part)
[13:35:34 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> ah
[13:35:43 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN>
[13:35:48 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> yup
[13:35:51 EST(-0500)] * EiNZTEiN is very passionate about standards
[13:36:01 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> as am I and most people that work on uPortal
[13:36:16 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> the problem is until very recently most open source projects are very developer heavy
[13:36:20 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> I'd love to help but I just don't know enough to really contribute back other than ideas, suggestions, etc...
[13:36:23 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> and very UI designer light
[13:36:34 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> those are great contributions
[13:36:47 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> that's why I love IRC and stuff (more than mailing lists actually )
[13:36:49 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> how do we know what to fix without feedback (especially patient feedback)
[13:37:00 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> hehe true
[13:37:55 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> for the most part, if uPortal had a great default theme and had it's structure (file and UI) organized neatly it would be awesome
[13:38:08 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> and that is what 3.0 will get us
[13:38:10 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> Yale's theme for uPortal is really nice
[13:38:15 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> a much cleaner theme
[13:38:19 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> it gave me hope
[13:38:20 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> hehe
[13:38:25 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> with very well documented XSL
[13:38:29 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> and a sane directory structure
[13:38:31 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> I'll have to install it locally to try it out
[13:38:50 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> I'm "stuck" with the channel we're used being ported to 3.0 eventually
[13:39:09 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> you probably know Pete Boysen from ISU
[13:39:36 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> yeah
[13:40:46 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> we're working with his ePortfolio portlet
[13:41:03 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> that's basically ALL we're gonna use ATM
[13:41:16 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> we might add other channels as we move along, but not necessarily
[13:44:21 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> and I don't know how 3.0 will "treat" them in terms of backward compatibility
[13:44:43 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> well if the channel works in a default 2.6 it should work in 3.0
[13:45:00 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> there may be some minor tweaks needed if the channel is using internals of uPortal it shouldn't be
[13:45:12 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> but the chances of that hopefully small
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[13:52:10 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> I see
[13:52:21 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> I'm gonna take a stab at the whole "show only the channel" thing
[13:53:22 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> EricDalquist: the channel is sort of "hacked" in
[13:55:41 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> hmm not really... 1 java file + 4 default files extended
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[15:12:30 EST(-0500)] <Dustin> EricDalquist
[15:12:55 EST(-0500)] <Dustin> the up3 link you posted is asking for a username/password
[15:13:04 EST(-0500)] <Dustin> the quickstart link
[15:17:12 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> hmm.. is there a standard icon for a uPortal channel?
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[16:07:43 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> hrm
[16:08:48 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> Dustin: fixed
[16:08:53 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> thanks for the note
[16:09:09 EST(-0500)] <Dustin> np
[16:09:41 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> or maybe not ...
[16:10:05 EST(-0500)] <Dustin> ya I was gonna say...
[16:10:10 EST(-0500)] <Dustin> just checked and it still is prompting
[16:10:16 EST(-0500)] <Dustin> its*
[16:11:26 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> ok
[16:11:29 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> now it is fixed
[16:11:34 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> just triple checked
[16:11:39 EST(-0500)] <dstn>
[16:11:42 EST(-0500)] <dstn> works for me
[16:11:46 EST(-0500)] <dstn> thks
[16:12:01 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> np
[16:12:20 EST(-0500)] <dstn> dang fast connection from here to there
[16:12:27 EST(-0500)] <dstn> pulled it in at 7 MB/sec
[16:12:44 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> gotta love I2
[16:22:15 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> whmmm
[16:22:36 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> I freak out with code I have no clue where it's getting pulled out of
[16:22:38 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> lol
[16:24:45 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> I have a "logo" image getting loaded somewhere, and it's not on xhtml-theme.xsl
[16:24:46 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> lol
[16:25:28 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> there is a header and a footer channel on each layout
[16:26:34 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> hmm
[16:29:03 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> where is that?
[16:29:07 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> the XSL?
[16:29:25 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> the layout is stored in a relational database and generated for each user
[16:29:33 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> you'll need to go to the users list for more info
[16:29:56 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> ok ok
[16:29:57 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> sorry
[16:30:30 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> is this gonna be changed in 3.0?
[16:32:58 EST(-0500)]

[16:34:52 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> in which build.xml?
[16:35:06 EST(-0500)] <dstn> the quickstart build.xml
[16:35:25 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> so quickstart/build.xml not quickstart/uportal/build.xml
[16:35:34 EST(-0500)] <dstn> yes
[16:35:35 EST(-0500)] <dstn> correct
[16:36:09 EST(-0500)]

<dstn> I was getting: "Cannot find $

Unknown macro: {uportal.dir}

/bootstrap/build_includes.xml imported from /home/schultzd/Desktop/up3/build.xml" until I switched that around.

[16:37:01 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> ah ok
[16:37:04 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> thanks
[16:39:12 EST(-0500)] <dstn> I downed uPortal-3.0.0-RC2-SNAPSHOT-quick-start.tar.gz if that helps
[16:39:35 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> they're all the same ... I'll go fix that
[16:39:42 EST(-0500)] <dstn> ok
[16:41:27 EST(-0500)] <dstn> Yay! After some permission mod's quickstart is up and going...now to play...
[16:41:34 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> cool
[16:41:38 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> I need to add a quickstart fix
[16:52:37 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> where can I get that UP3 snapshot?
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[17:00:56 EST(-0500)] <dstn> EiNZTEiN
[17:01:02 EST(-0500)] <dstn> you can get it here: https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/dalquist/web/JA-SIG/uPortal/uPortal-3.0.0-RC2-SNAPSHOT-quick-start/
[17:30:47 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN> thanks
[17:30:50 EST(-0500)] <EiNZTEiN>
[17:43:19 EST(-0500)] <dstn> np
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