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[13:00:44 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> I'm going to update the Fluid daily build server to the latest uPortal 3. Should I pull it out of trunk, or would you recommend a more stable branch or distribution?
[13:01:23 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Hello to everyone, by the way. 
[13:01:52 EST(-0500)] <athena7> hello!
[13:02:06 EST(-0500)] <athena7> how's the reorderer work going?
[13:02:07 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> colinclark:
[13:02:08 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> trunk
[13:02:16 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> there is actually a quickstart version now too
[13:02:18 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> EricDalquist: Thanks.
[13:02:29 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> I'll use trunk.
[13:02:51 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Shaw-Han has been working with Gary's new skin. Do I have a reasonable chance of also getting it working?
[13:03:01 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> check with athena7 on that
[13:03:21 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> athena7: Hey Jen!
[13:03:26 EST(-0500)] <athena7> hey
[13:03:34 EST(-0500)] <athena7> i don't think any of the new skin is in subversion yet
[13:03:40 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Reorderer work is going ridiculously slow, but we're making good progress.
[13:03:49 EST(-0500)] <athena7> we've set up a working theme branch though, and i'm hoping we'll have it in soon
[13:04:01 EST(-0500)] <athena7> i'm also going to try and do the migration to dojo 1.0.2 there
[13:04:25 EST(-0500)] <athena7> incidentally, it looks like dojo fixed their drag and drop issues
[13:04:27 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> We're really trying to make sure this is a really reusable solution, so that it works with both uPortal and might also be userful to other projects.
[13:04:33 EST(-0500)] <athena7> it seems to be pretty useable now
[13:04:37 EST(-0500)] <athena7> sounds good
[13:04:48 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> I haven't looked recently, but Dojo's drag and drop was broken conceptually, too.
[13:05:06 EST(-0500)] <athena7> yeah
[13:05:20 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> We're really happy using jQuery now. Happily all of our code will coexist with Dojo and other toolkits. And its getting really tiny.
[13:05:30 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Are you using a custom Dojo build for your uPortal work?
[13:05:42 EST(-0500)] <athena7> that's good to hear - i was concerned about having to include yet another javascript dependency
[13:05:43 EST(-0500)] <athena7> yes
[13:05:45 EST(-0500)] <athena7> er
[13:05:46 EST(-0500)] <athena7> no
[13:05:54 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> They've got a nifty little build process where you can create a Dojo.js that contains only the dependencies you actually use.
[13:06:14 EST(-0500)] <athena7> yeah i've seen a little about that but i've yet to try it
[13:06:21 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> I can help out with that if you're interested. Should make it a bit smaller.
[13:06:31 EST(-0500)] <athena7> sounds good
[13:06:58 EST(-0500)] <athena7> it would be great to keep it as small as we can
[13:07:06 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Yes, I completely agree.
[13:07:19 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> yeah
[13:07:19 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> I feel really bad that we've been so slow to get this new Reorderer out the door.
[13:07:43 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> I think the Yale DnD added like 5+MB to the uPortal download size
[13:07:45 EST(-0500)] <athena7> if you get to a point where I could play with it in uportal, let me know
[13:07:47 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> colinclark:
[13:07:49 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> don't worry about it
[13:07:58 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> we have a good roadmap for uP3
[13:08:15 EST(-0500)] <athena7> yeah i'm sure it did, and a lot of the added code/images/etc. probably isnt' even being used
[13:08:18 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> We were at a point where we outgrew our structure and needed to do some refactoring. The portlet work has made it way stronger, but it takes time.
[13:09:27 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> athena7: I'll see what I can do. Can you point me to a starting place in SVN where I can see what Dojo dependencies we have, and then I can create a custom build?
[13:09:34 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> I have to do the same for Sakai, incidentally.
[13:09:57 EST(-0500)] <athena7> if it's ok with you, it would probably make more sense to wait until i put the dojo 1.0 stuff in
[13:10:04 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Yes, totally.
[13:10:11 EST(-0500)] <athena7> i'm guessing that looking at the dojo 0.43 code or whatever isn't really that useful
[13:10:11 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> I was just getting excited.
[13:10:23 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Not really. They changed so much between 0.4 and 1.0.
[13:10:24 EST(-0500)] <athena7> but once that's in i'll definitely let you know
[13:10:28 EST(-0500)] <athena7> and hopefully that will be soon
[13:11:02 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Cool. No rush. I have no lack of things to do in the meantime.
[13:11:21 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> So I've committed to this JavaScript programming workshop before the April conference.
[13:11:29 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Are you guys going to come?
[13:11:42 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Or do you want to help? 
[13:11:56 EST(-0500)] <athena7> i'd be willing to if you'd like me to
[13:12:03 EST(-0500)] <athena7> what're you planning on talking about?
[13:12:09 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> I'm already teaching two seminars
[13:12:56 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> EricDalquist: What are you teaching?
[13:13:05 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> athena7: Let me grab my really rough outline.
[13:13:18 EST(-0500)] <athena7> sure
[13:13:22 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> I'm helping Drew with the uportal upgrade seminar and Andrew Petro with the intro to uPortal seminar
[13:13:30 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> to do up3 tie ins for both
[13:13:39 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Cool.
[13:13:55 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> This was just my preliminary thinking:
[13:14:20 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> 1. JavaScript fundamentals: how it's different from Java, bugs, objects as general containers, closures and first class functions, namespacing
[13:14:32 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> 2. Tools: Firebug, JSUnit, etc.
[13:14:53 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> 3. Toolkits: why use one, comparison of toolkits, how to use jQuery
[13:15:12 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> 4. Markup-driven design ("AHAH")
[13:15:23 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> 5. DHTML accessibility
[13:15:28 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> 6. How to build a Fluid component.
[13:15:41 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> As you can see, it's a rather ambitious plan...
[13:15:46 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Hopefully I am not doomed.
[13:16:08 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> are you doing 4 or 8 hours?
[13:16:31 EST(-0500)] <athena7> sounds interesting
[13:16:32 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> It's a half-day. But I love JavaScript, so I could go on forever.
[13:17:41 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> I think the biggest things I want to get across are: 1) how to do portal-friendly DHTML (namespacing and so on); 2) unobtrusive JavaScript and markup-based communication between client and server; 3) how to build accessible UIs.
[13:31:53 EST(-0500)] <dstn> jQuery is so cool, I love it
[13:33:00 EST(-0500)] <athena7> nice
[13:35:23 EST(-0500)] <dstn> I have a suggestion or a proposal for the drag and drop since your redoing it. When a portlet is dragged, it'd be cool to have a border where its going to be dropped. We redid ours using some jQuery libraries like that.
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[13:36:19 EST(-0500)] <dstn> just a suggestion
[13:36:54 EST(-0500)] <athena7> what do you mean by border?
[13:37:11 EST(-0500)] <dstn> hold on one sec, I'll find an example
[13:37:16 EST(-0500)] <athena7> sure
[13:37:35 EST(-0500)] <athena7> the next version will probably do whatever the default dojo behavior is
[13:37:59 EST(-0500)] <athena7> i haven't planned to do a lot of elaborate customization, since hopefully eventually we'll be using the fluid reorderer instead
[13:40:45 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> yeah, not much point in doing more than just 'making it work' for 3.0 since the fluid code is on the horizon
[13:42:07 EST(-0500)] <dstn> I'm not familiar with the fluid stuff. Here is the example I'm takin about: http://interface.eyecon.ro/demos/sort.html
[13:42:23 EST(-0500)] <athena7> ah ok, yes
[13:42:26 EST(-0500)] <dstn> You can drag those boxes around
[13:42:45 EST(-0500)] <athena7> i think with dojo it's possible to customize the behavior
[13:43:15 EST(-0500)] <athena7> i'll try to at least include a link to the relevant documentation
[13:44:07 EST(-0500)] <dstn> Ok cool, just thought I'd throw it out there.
[13:44:34 EST(-0500)] <athena7>
[13:44:44 EST(-0500)] <athena7> yeah i'm sure different schools may prefer different behaviors
[13:53:55 EST(-0500)] <dstn> Using the fluid reorderer, are portlet locations still going to persist through AJAX?
[13:54:58 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> yup
[13:55:38 EST(-0500)] <dstn> cool, fluid looks nice
[13:56:09 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> yeah, all of our accessibility people on campus are quite happy that we're going to use it when we roll out DnD here
[13:56:15 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> they won't have much testing to do at all
[13:56:37 EST(-0500)] <athena7> yes dstn, they should
[13:57:01 EST(-0500)] <athena7> i don't think there should be any less features
[13:57:08 EST(-0500)] <athena7> just more accessibility and cleaner code
[14:00:01 EST(-0500)] <athena7> does this line still work in up3?
[14:00:02 EST(-0500)] <athena7> org.jasig.portal.UserInstance.log_xml_before_theme_transformation=true
[14:00:47 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> it should
[14:00:51 EST(-0500)] <athena7> ok
[14:00:54 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> if you have logging turned up high enough
[14:01:06 EST(-0500)] <athena7> yeah i should just need to set userinstance to debug, right?
[14:01:21 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> not userinstance any more
[14:01:28 EST(-0500)] <athena7> oh
[14:01:33 EST(-0500)] <athena7> that's probably the problem then!
[14:01:36 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> org.jasig.portal.rendering.StaticRenderingPipeline
[14:01:38 EST(-0500)] <athena7> thanks
[14:01:41 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> yup
[14:01:55 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> the UserInstance data class and the actual rendering code are seperated now (finally)
[14:02:00 EST(-0500)] <athena7> fantastic
[14:02:09 EST(-0500)] <athena7> but the line in portal.properties is still the same, yes?
[14:02:36 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> yeah
[14:02:43 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> I didn't bother changing those
[14:02:48 EST(-0500)] <athena7> ok, cool
[14:02:50 EST(-0500)] <athena7> good to know
[14:02:55 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> I should probably add a note in there
[14:03:08 EST(-0500)] <athena7> documentation is always helpful
[14:13:14 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> sorry, I've been away from the keyboard... just catching up.
[14:16:02 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> dstn: Our interaction designers have been doing a lot of thinking about drag and drop.
[14:16:13 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> Here's what they have planned for the portlet layout manager:
[14:16:14 EST(-0500)] <colinclark> http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Portal+Layout+Manager+Mockups
[15:00:33 EST(-0500)] <athena7> i'm having a bizarre probably trying to get gary's theme docs to work
[15:00:39 EST(-0500)] <athena7> but only in the up3theme branch
[15:00:43 EST(-0500)] <athena7> i have no idea what went wrong
[15:01:20 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> could it be the latest change from drew?
[15:01:34 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> http://developer.ja-sig.org/source/changelog/jasigsvn?cs=42949&csize=5
[15:01:34 EST(-0500)] <athena7> hm, actually maybe you're right, thanks
[15:01:51 EST(-0500)] <athena7> because i probably haven't done an svn update recently on my trunk branch
[15:01:52 EST(-0500)] <athena7> thanks!
[15:02:20 EST(-0500)] <athena7> i'll take a look at that
[15:02:30 EST(-0500)] <athena7> by the way, rdbm.properties has an error
[15:02:42 EST(-0500)] <athena7> somehow PostgreSQLDialect became ProgressDialect
[15:03:27 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> org.hibernate.dialect.ProgressDialect ?
[15:03:46 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> Yeah that is correct ... it switched from using the single string Spring names for ORM dialiects
[15:03:52 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> to the hibernate specific dialect classes
[15:04:04 EST(-0500)] <athena7> oh, it's actually supposed to be that?
[15:04:12 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> yup
[15:04:20 EST(-0500)] <athena7> my build didn't work until i changed it back
[15:04:24 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> http://www.jdocs.com/hibernate/3.2.5/api-index.html?m=package&p=org.hibernate.dialect&render=classic
[15:04:27 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> hrm
[15:04:28 EST(-0500)] <athena7> i'll have to switch it again and see what the error was
[15:04:37 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> that link should be the list of valid dialicts
[15:04:44 EST(-0500)] <athena7> i'd never seen that dialect name before
[15:05:11 EST(-0500)] <athena7> what is progress?
[15:06:03 EST(-0500)] <athena7> and what's the reason to use that instead of the postgresql dialect?
[15:06:47 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> oh
[15:06:53 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> oops
[15:06:54 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> wow
[15:07:03 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> my brain substituted Postgres for Progress
[15:07:05 EST(-0500)] <athena7> oh
[15:07:06 EST(-0500)] <athena7> ok
[15:07:11 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> sorry about that!
[15:07:18 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> you were probably thinking I was nuts
[15:07:38 EST(-0500)] <athena7> i just wondered what happened - i thought a spell checker at the file or somethign
[15:07:43 EST(-0500)] <EricDalquist> so yeah you want org.hibernate.dialect.PostgreSQLDialect
[15:07:53 EST(-0500)] <athena7> looking at the page you linked i'm sure you just grabbed the wrong string though
[15:07:54 EST(-0500)] <athena7> yep
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