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[09:02:05 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> morning
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[09:45:56 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> deciding where files go is such a pain
[10:00:00 EDT(-0400)] <agherna> EricDalquist: it is, but it's an important decision...
[10:00:10 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> yup
[10:00:21 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> the hard part is getting anyone to give me decent input 
[10:01:05 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> specifically I need people to check out and poke around in the maven version so I can talk to people about things like, where do we put spring context files
[10:01:14 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> where does the properties directory go
[10:01:22 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> do we re-org that directory at all?
[10:01:29 EDT(-0400)] <agherna> i was wondering about that (not specifically related to maven)
[10:01:49 EDT(-0400)] <agherna> it seems to me that properties should be where .properties are kept like they are now
[10:02:13 EDT(-0400)] <agherna> but xml files are there too
[10:03:00 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> yup
[10:03:00 EDT(-0400)] <agherna> could (should) properties be renamed 'conf' since it stores configuration information (xml and properties)
[10:03:23 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> and where should that directory reside? in the uportal-impl or uportal-war subproject
[10:03:32 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> or does config get its own sub-project
[10:03:39 EDT(-0400)] <agherna> depends
[10:04:05 EDT(-0400)] <agherna> there certainly is enough configuration information that it could warrant its own project, but that would be too complex
[10:04:54 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> what is your specific complexity concern?
[10:04:59 EDT(-0400)] <agherna> i should admit i have not looked at the new maven structure yet 
[10:05:43 EDT(-0400)] <agherna> i think people would be confused by having configuration information in a place not close to what needs to be configured
[10:05:47 EDT(-0400)] <agherna> if that makes sense...
[10:05:53 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> yeah
[10:05:55 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> that does
[10:06:32 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> the problem I'm having right now is that splitting the source and the war is nice in some ways but that split adds some confusion
[10:07:07 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> the properties directory is in the -impl subproject
[10:07:24 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> but depending on your view it could be related to the -war subproject
[10:07:48 EDT(-0400)] <agherna> does -impl get rolled in to -war at build time?
[10:08:58 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> yeah
[10:09:12 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> -impl generates a .jar with all the uPortal source and classpath resources
[10:09:27 EDT(-0400)] <agherna> then i think the config info is in the right place
[10:09:33 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> which goes into web-inf/lib of the .war that the -war project generates
[10:09:36 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist>
[10:09:45 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> I'm going to go do some more documentation and see if
[10:09:50 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> I can get a few people to read it over
[10:10:05 EDT(-0400)] <agherna> but here's a question: where does the web-related config information go? (web.xml, log4j.properties, etc.)?
[10:10:08 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> since reading a page or two is more reasonable than going and parsing through the new project structure
[10:10:13 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> in the -war project
[10:10:18 EDT(-0400)] <agherna> ok
[10:10:29 EDT(-0400)] <agherna> then it seems to be separated the right way
[10:10:39 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> btw these are great questions ... now I know what I need to go document
[10:10:45 EDT(-0400)] <agherna> that's from my perspective (as a user)
[10:10:58 EDT(-0400)] <agherna> definitely.
[10:10:59 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> that is a very important perspective
[10:11:38 EDT(-0400)] <agherna> something you will want to include in the documentation is your rationale for the decision. i find that helps stave off questions from nit-picky folks
[10:11:58 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> if you ever get a chance to try out the mavenized build I'd like to here your critique of this page: http://www.ja-sig.org/wiki/display/UPC/Building+and+Deploying+uPortal+3
[10:12:01 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> ok
[10:13:03 EDT(-0400)] <agherna> i would also just like to say i like conf as the directory name better than properties
[10:13:26 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> I do to
[10:13:32 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> and I think I'll likely change it
[10:13:37 EDT(-0400)] <agherna>
[10:13:38 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> and create more subdirectories
[10:13:48 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> like /conf/contexts for all the spring configs
[10:14:03 EDT(-0400)] <agherna> conf/xml, conf/properties, conf/etc
[10:14:27 EDT(-0400)] <agherna> it will help set expectations more appropriately
[10:14:34 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist>
[10:17:11 EDT(-0400)] <agherna> just be sure to explain what belongs there and why...
[10:17:26 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> I'll do my best
[10:17:34 EDT(-0400)] <agherna> I know you will
[10:17:36 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> much of it initially is just going to be 'what is where'
[10:17:53 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> and then get some feedback from people as to their views on the locations
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[10:56:29 EDT(-0400)] <pberry> Whoa, Eric...going with your rapper name today?
[10:57:00 EDT(-0400)] <EricD> yup
[10:57:18 EDT(-0400)] <EricD> you like it?
[10:57:24 EDT(-0400)] * pberry stands back a respectable distance
[10:57:27 EDT(-0400)] <pberry> "Yeah"
[10:57:31 EDT(-0400)] <EricD> lol
[10:58:30 EDT(-0400)] <pberry> So I was about to confirm that browser nonsense on the 2.5.3.1 quickstart last night when I saw that the file isn't completely there
[10:58:36 EDT(-0400)] <pberry> it's only a partial zip file
[10:58:47 EDT(-0400)] <EricD> :/
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[11:03:59 EDT(-0400)] <pberry> jayshao: http://www.ja-sig.org/issues/browse/UP-1824
[11:05:21 EDT(-0400)] <jayshao> pberry: sweet
[11:05:29 EDT(-0400)] <jayshao> I do think the NPE is also an error
[11:05:50 EDT(-0400)] <jayshao> but I agree having to match the user agent against a list is bad
[11:05:55 EDT(-0400)] <pberry> yeah, Susan thinks that the behavior used to be different
[11:06:06 EDT(-0400)] <pberry> but I was able to verify against the 2.6 rc2 quicksart
[11:06:11 EDT(-0400)] <pberry> not just the chico hacked up version
[11:31:10 EDT(-0400)] <EricD> anyone want to take 10 minutes and read: http://www.ja-sig.org/wiki/display/UPC/uPortal+3+Project+Structure for me?
[11:32:27 EDT(-0400)] * pberry brings the page up
[11:38:39 EDT(-0400)] <pberry> looks good. found a missing 'a' but that was it.
[11:39:05 EDT(-0400)] <EricD> does it make sense and would it answer your questions if you were looking for config files?
[11:39:40 EDT(-0400)] <pberry> yeah, in fact that's the one thing that really stood out. I was thinking "Oh wow, people are going to be screwed in the new structure if they don't read this."
[11:39:52 EDT(-0400)] <EricD> yeah
[11:40:04 EDT(-0400)] <EricD> well thats why I want to make sure I get these docs put together
[11:40:06 EDT(-0400)] <EricD> and vetted
[11:40:19 EDT(-0400)] <EricD> otherwise you're going to crash & burn if you don't read this and the 'how to build' doc
[11:41:18 EDT(-0400)] <pberry> well, as long as you can keep me in the download, build, test phase you'll catch a lot of the ADHD issues 
[11:42:14 EDT(-0400)] <EricD>
[11:51:31 EDT(-0400)] <EricD> agherna or jayshao ... any thoughts on that latest up3 doc?
[11:52:47 EDT(-0400)] <agherna> ahhh... well....
[11:52:55 EDT(-0400)] <jayshao> EricD: I'm glad there is one
[11:53:09 EDT(-0400)] <agherna> jayshao: ditto
[11:53:11 EDT(-0400)] <jayshao> I saw it and marked it to read
[11:53:16 EDT(-0400)] <jayshao> I'm pretty swamped at this moment
[11:53:20 EDT(-0400)] <jayshao> Sakai E.D. is here
[11:53:26 EDT(-0400)] <jayshao> you'll see him later this week at FLUID
[11:53:42 EDT(-0400)] <agherna> i also think it would be helpful if i checked out the up3 code and compared it to the document.
[11:53:56 EDT(-0400)] <EricD> sorry for my not so subtle proding but I've realized this is what I have to do to get review of this stuff 
[11:54:04 EDT(-0400)] <EricD> that would be wonderful
[11:54:14 EDT(-0400)] <EricD> I'd owe both you and pberry a pony then
[11:55:01 EDT(-0400)] <agherna> EricD: is it all in the ja-sig svn repository?
[11:55:12 EDT(-0400)] <agherna> I'm a little embarassed b/c I haven't been keeping up on this...
[11:55:15 EDT(-0400)] <EricD> it is the trunk for up2 now
[11:55:28 EDT(-0400)] <EricD> svn checkout https://www.ja-sig.org/svn/up2/trunk
[11:55:35 EDT(-0400)] <EricD> gets you the mavenized codebase
[11:55:41 EDT(-0400)] <EricD> so we're stuck with it now
[11:56:40 EDT(-0400)] <agherna> I'll try to look at it today.
[11:57:01 EDT(-0400)] <EricD> that would be great, I really appreciate the time people put in to review this stuff for me
[11:58:01 EDT(-0400)] <EricD> the http://www.ja-sig.org/wiki/display/UPC/uPortal+3+Project+Structure doc is for understanding the project structure & file locations and http://www.ja-sig.org/wiki/display/UPC/Building+and+Deploying+uPortal+3 has the steps for building/deploying
[11:58:10 EDT(-0400)] <agherna> i will definitely try to do my best.
[11:59:50 EDT(-0400)] <agherna> BRB
[12:01:25 EDT(-0400)] <jayshao> EricD: prodding is good
[12:01:32 EDT(-0400)] <jayshao> timing bad
[12:01:35 EDT(-0400)] <jayshao> but prodding is good
[12:01:40 EDT(-0400)] <EricD> timing is always bad
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[12:50:33 EDT(-0400)] <pberry> EricDalquist: I noticed that your maven merge deleted a bunch of files, is that in line with the structure doc I just read?
[12:50:42 EDT(-0400)] <pberry> basically the files just moved to their new location
[12:51:24 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> yeah so in fisheye a svn move looks like a delete of file x/y/a and add of file z/y/a
[12:51:34 EDT(-0400)] <pberry> gotcha
[12:51:52 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> a few files did go away but they were things related to the old build process
[13:34:57 EDT(-0400)] <agherna> very dumb maven question: what would i use the maven ant tasks for?
[13:35:21 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> the maven-ant-tasks jar file?
[13:35:26 EDT(-0400)] <agherna> yes
[13:35:56 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> well I used it quite a bit to get the build.xml that is included with the mavenized uportal working nicely with the maven managed build
[13:36:40 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> it provide the ability to load pom files (maven project descriptors) and get classpaths based on the dependency declarations, find out information about files, paths and such for a pom
[13:36:56 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> you as a normal developer will likely never use it
[13:37:22 EDT(-0400)] <agherna> ok, so it's not a requirement to build and deploy up3 then, right?
[13:37:27 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> it is
[13:37:30 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> but it is included
[13:37:47 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> the build.xml for up3 loads it from the bootstrap directory
[13:37:55 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> you don't need to download it yourself
[13:37:55 EDT(-0400)] <agherna> included with what?
[13:38:01 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> included in svn
[13:38:04 EDT(-0400)] <agherna> ok
[13:38:27 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> so if you checkout the trunk everything you need comes with it ... you just need the core ant and core maven utilities
[13:38:43 EDT(-0400)] <agherna> ok
[13:39:04 EDT(-0400)] <agherna> next question: do you use the svn command line for checkouts or are you using eclipse/subclipse?
[13:39:09 EDT(-0400)] <agherna> or does it matter?
[14:06:19 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> oh hey sorry ... have the sound off
[14:06:26 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> I use eclipse/subclipse
[14:06:29 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> but it doesn't matter
[14:06:33 EDT(-0400)] <agherna> np
[14:06:38 EDT(-0400)] <agherna> ok
[14:06:46 EDT(-0400)] <agherna> i have tortoise svn, so i will use that
[14:06:48 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> the svn command line is really quite easy to use
[14:07:00 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> but whatever you're comfortable with
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[15:48:56 EDT(-0400)] <pberry> I think it's time to close this with "WONT FIX" http://www.ja-sig.org/issues/browse/UP-1152
[15:49:22 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist>
[15:49:26 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> it may get fixed eventually
[15:49:31 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> aka up3
[15:49:51 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> since once we get the big things done one of my first tasks will be to go and move all caching into a spring configured cache context
[15:49:58 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> using a real caching library
[15:50:05 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> like ehcache or oscache or some such
[15:50:17 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> and then you can configure distributed caching to your heart's content
[15:50:42 EDT(-0400)] <pberry> that will be nice
[15:50:57 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> yes it will
[15:51:16 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> then we can do nice things like watch all the caches via jmx and reasonably tune them
[15:53:31 EDT(-0400)] <pberry> that's unpossible
[15:54:08 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> lol
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