uPortal IRC Logs-2008-03-11

Owned by Apereo Infrastructure
Last updated: Mar 11, 2008Version comment
10 min read

[09:07:51 EDT(-0400)] * anastasiac (n=team@142.150.154.149) has joined ##uportal
[09:54:08 EDT(-0400)] * theclown (n=theclown@142.150.154.101) has joined ##uportal
[09:56:56 EDT(-0400)] * EricDalquist (n=dalquist@bohemia.doit.wisc.edu) has joined ##uportal
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[11:30:33 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> EricDalquist, after changing the address of the quickstart files, when trying to redeploy it fails :S
[11:31:03 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> http://pastie.caboo.se/162560
[11:31:08 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> thanks (smile)
[11:31:08 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> any ideas? (sad)
[11:31:47 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> hrm, could you the whole build?
[11:31:53 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> ant deploy-war >build.log
[11:31:59 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> then paste the contents of that?
[11:32:00 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> ok
[11:32:03 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> just a sec
[11:32:19 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> also could you do ant -version
[11:32:46 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> Apache Ant version 1.6.2 compiled on March 20 2005
[11:33:13 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> do I need to install 1.6.5?
[11:33:28 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> I'm not sure
[11:33:37 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> 1.6.5 is bundled with the quickstart if you want to give it a try
[11:33:48 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> I'm going to go lookup what the build.xml is doing and check the ant docs
[11:33:58 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> ok ok
[11:34:05 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> I'll try the QS ant version
[11:34:56 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> ah
[11:35:07 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> according to the ant manual the length task was added in 1.6.3
[11:35:21 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> weird
[11:35:27 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> here's with 1.6.5
[11:35:28 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> http://pastie.caboo.se/164423
[11:35:46 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> definitely a different error (smile)
[11:35:52 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> looks like a permissions problem
[11:36:02 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> permissions
[11:36:03 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> ya
[11:36:07 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> just a sec (smile)
[11:36:15 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> are you running ant as levifig?
[11:36:33 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> it's going now (smile)
[11:36:34 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> sudo
[11:36:39 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> groovy :o
[11:36:46 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> you guys using groovy now? (smile)
[11:36:58 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> groovy? the scripting language?
[11:37:22 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> y
[11:37:22 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> [artifact:dependencies] Downloading: groovy/groovy-all/1.0/groovy-all-1.0.pom from jasig-repository
[11:37:22 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> [artifact:dependencies] Downloading: groovy/groovy-all/1.0/groovy-all-1.0.pom from pluto-staging
[11:37:23 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> [artifact:dependencies] Downloading: groovy/groovy-all/1.0/groovy-all-1.0.pom from central
[11:37:23 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> [artifact:dependencies] Downloading: javax/script/groovy-engine/1.0/groovy-engine-1.0.pom from jasig-repository
[11:37:32 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> [artifact:dependencies] Downloading: javax/script/groovy-engine/1.0/groovy-engine-1.0.pom from pluto-staging
[11:37:33 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> [artifact:dependencies] Downloading: javax/script/groovy-engine/1.0/groovy-engine-1.0.pom from central
[11:37:34 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> (sorry for the flood ooooops)
[11:37:34 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> ah something uPortal depends on probably uses it
[11:37:46 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> it's downloading a bunch of stuff
[11:37:47 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> actually I think Cernunnos uses groovy
[11:37:49 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> yup
[11:37:52 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> I've noticed that on 3.0
[11:38:02 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> so that is the big change with the switch to maven
[11:38:10 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> we'll see where this goes... another question I have is with 2.6
[11:38:13 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> when you download the uportal code it is just code
[11:38:29 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> login with guest-lo doesn't save the theme/preferences for the guest login :S
[11:38:39 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> maven gets all of the dependencies at build time (they are cached on the local machine so it only does it once)
[11:38:41 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> I can't customize the guest theme/look&feel
[11:38:56 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> ya, it's all maven
[11:40:05 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> that I'm not sure about
[11:40:38 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> have you tried restarting EiNZTEiN?
[11:40:48 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> athena7, sure have
[11:40:50 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> several times
[11:40:52 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> i know the guest layout gets cached indefinitely
[11:40:54 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> ok, just making sure
[11:41:08 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> definitely sounds like something to be looked into then
[11:41:11 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> hmm
[11:41:13 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> caching?
[11:41:22 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> yeah but restarting should take care of that
[11:41:23 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> interesting
[11:41:26 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> ohh
[11:41:33 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> no no.. that's not the issue then (smile)
[11:41:35 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> EiNZTEiN: would you be willing to file a Jira issue for the ant 1.6.2 bug?
[11:42:01 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> is it only the guest-lo user whose preferences aren't being saved?
[11:42:11 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> EricDalquist, sure
[11:42:14 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> thanks: http://www.ja-sig.org/issues/browse/UP
[11:42:32 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> I'll update the build.xml before GA so it fails with a nice message if you're not running a supported version of Ant
[11:43:12 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> gotcha That's nice (smile)
[11:48:09 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> EiNZTEiN: is it only the guest-lo user whose preferences aren't saved? do preferences were for other users or fragment owners?
[11:51:07 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> for other users works fine
[11:51:34 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> interesting
[11:52:07 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> if you log back in again as the guest-lo user, do the saved preferences show up? or is it only in the guest user itself that the preferences don't get updated?
[12:09:54 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> once I login with guest-lo everything is fine
[12:10:01 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> the custom theme is selected and all
[12:24:45 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> weird huh? :/
[12:29:28 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> ok
[12:29:31 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> i'll take a look at it
[12:29:36 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> would you mind filing a ticket?
[12:29:56 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> and yes, that is weird, but the guest user uses a different layout manager, so that might be the problem
[12:29:57 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> thanks
[12:30:29 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> back soon!
[12:40:11 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> EricDalquist, is this good enough: http://www.ja-sig.org/issues/browse/UP-1967 ?
[12:40:35 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> how can I change the layout manager for the guest?? does uP3 solve these issues?
[12:41:03 EDT(-0400)] * EricDalquist (n=dalquist@bohemia.doit.wisc.edu) has joined ##uportal
[12:41:12 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> because if it does I rather invest getting what I need working on uP3 than "hacking away" on the (almost) deprecated 2.6 version
[12:41:40 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> yes EiNZTEiN that looks good for an issue, thanks
[12:41:51 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> and on the guest layout issue ... no idea since we don't know what the problem is yet
[12:42:22 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> ya
[12:42:23 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> it's weird
[12:42:33 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> cuz when I login with guest-lo I get my template
[12:42:37 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> and preferences
[12:42:49 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> once I logout it goes back to the default spring theme
[12:42:50 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> :S
[12:43:19 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> update: doesn't work with Ant 1.7.0 either :|
[12:43:23 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> that kinda sux (sad)
[12:43:25 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> nope
[12:43:30 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> there is a NASTY bug in 1.7.0
[12:43:38 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> stack overflow and everything (smile)
[12:43:38 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> yikes
[12:43:43 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> ok ok
[12:43:45 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> downgrading (tongue)
[12:43:45 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> it has been reported and fixed
[12:43:51 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> so whenever ant 1.7.1 comes out ...
[12:44:09 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> but at least the build should tell you nicely that ant 1.7.0 isn't supported
[12:44:28 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> it does (wink)
[12:44:50 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> do any of you use OSX? (smile)
[12:44:53 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> yup
[12:44:54 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> by any chance (wink)
[12:44:56 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> nice
[12:44:58 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> question
[12:45:07 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> I use it at home and ubuntu 7.10 at work
[12:45:26 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> on the terminal (note: visor.app ROCKS!) can you do the search for previous commands like on the linux bash?
[12:45:38 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> history
[12:45:45 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> history | grep commandName
[12:45:45 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> like start typing and (can't remember the keyb shortcut) to use history completion
[12:45:52 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> oh
[12:45:58 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> I've never used history completion (smile)
[12:46:10 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> it rocks
[12:46:18 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> are you using FF3b?
[12:46:25 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> the new location bar rocks because of that
[12:46:44 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> you start typing and it looks not just on the URLs, but anywhere on history urls, titles, etc...
[12:47:06 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> like you can start typing "uPortal" and it finds "http://localhost:8080/uPortal"
[12:47:13 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> nope
[12:47:15 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> that feature alone is a winner for FF3
[12:47:17 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> it's amazing
[12:47:20 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> b4 is out
[12:47:24 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> yeah
[12:47:26 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> hiiiighly recommended (wink)
[12:47:36 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> I'll be cautious and wait until the GA
[12:50:06 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> hehe (wink)
[12:50:21 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> I'm a freaking bleeding edge guy (not for production stuff of course (tongue))
[12:50:27 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> gentoo FTW (tongue)
[12:50:33 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> lol
[12:56:34 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> os x, yes!
[12:56:49 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> EiNZTEiN: i think I know what the problem is with your up3 instance
[12:57:06 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> that's cool (smile)
[12:57:09 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> the guest user is set up to use the wrong structure and theme
[12:57:15 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> wait
[12:57:21 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> when you make changes in guest-lo
[12:57:23 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> the guest prob is on a 2.6 instance
[12:57:26 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> oh
[12:57:38 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> well at least you found a up3 bug athena7 (wink)
[12:57:45 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> no
[12:58:09 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> haha
[12:58:16 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> i was going to say that it was probably the result of us moving the theme location - since the spring theme doesn't exist anymore in up3 i was going to suggest that something wasn't updated correctly (smile)
[12:58:22 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> ah
[12:58:24 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> but ok, up2.6 then (smile)
[12:58:41 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> EricDalquist, "Always look for the bright side of life..." (tongue)
[12:58:54 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> yup
[12:58:56 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> i'll have to look into that
[13:01:54 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> is it possible to run multiple versions of firefox?
[13:01:58 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> yes
[13:02:03 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> in OSX is very easy
[13:02:08 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> oh ok
[13:02:09 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> just rename the Firefox.app
[13:02:14 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> in that case maybe i could play with ff
[13:02:14 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> I have Firefox 3.app
[13:02:17 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> that makes sense
[13:02:17 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> and Firefox 2.app
[13:02:22 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> and I use 2 profiles
[13:02:25 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> yeah i need to keep 2 around
[13:02:27 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> Beta and Default
[13:02:34 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> although I don't use Default anymore
[13:02:35 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> but i've been wanting to play with the new one
[13:02:48 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> do you have to do anything special to set up multiple profiles?
[13:02:57 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> even on FF2 (when I need to use it-rarely) I shut down FF3 and use the same profile
[13:03:00 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> not really
[13:03:11 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> but you need to have the dialog show up
[13:03:14 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> wait a sec
[13:04:12 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> http://support.mozilla.com/kb/Managing+profiles#Mac
[13:04:14 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> (wink)
[13:04:18 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> pretty easy
[13:04:51 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> then make sure to UNCHECK the "Don't show this at startup" on the profile dialog when you launch FF
[13:05:00 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> so it shows everytime you launch it
[13:05:33 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> thanks!
[13:05:36 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> i'll have to try that out
[13:06:12 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> no prob
[13:06:13 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> (smile)
[13:06:27 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> so by default would the two firefox versions share a profile?
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[13:19:57 EDT(-0400)] <lescour> heya
[13:20:04 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> hello
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[13:32:00 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> got uP3 working (smile)
[13:32:02 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> thanks guys =)
[13:32:22 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> not gotta test the custom channel :| eeek
[13:32:44 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> yay!
[13:32:59 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> I just went through and tested with ant 1.6.3 and 1.6.4, both work
[13:33:18 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> so I'll add excludes for 1.7.0, 1.6.2, 1.6.1, 1.6.0 and 1.5.*
[13:33:50 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> nice
[13:34:04 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> works on 1.6.3, 1.6.4 and 1.6.5 then?
[13:34:09 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> yup
[13:34:18 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> I really home 1.7.1 comes out soon
[13:34:19 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> gotcha
[13:34:27 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> there are some really nice features in 1.7 that I'd love to use in the build file
[13:34:29 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> but can't (sad)
[13:34:32 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> hehe
[13:34:42 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> 1.7.1 should be coming.................. :rolleyes:
[13:35:54 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> last time I checked on the ant dev list they just cut a beta recently
[13:36:07 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> nice
[13:36:09 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> apparently the long lapse in releases was due to lack of a release manager stepping up to do it
[13:36:20 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> eeek
[13:40:13 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> lunch time folks (smile)
[13:40:16 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> ttyl
[16:26:03 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> i think i've found a file with sad ^M newlines
[16:26:13 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> is that something we generally try and change in svn?
[16:27:10 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> athena7: yes
[16:27:17 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> ok
[16:27:29 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> i can just fix it and check it back in, if that seems like the best solution
[16:27:29 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> but I'm not quite sure what needs to be done I think there may be a svn flag or something
[16:27:31 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> :/
[16:27:35 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> that works too (smile)
[16:27:38 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> well
[16:27:53 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> i was importing it into our yale repository, so i just fixed the file itself
[16:28:03 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> but actually you're right, the properties on it might be set wrong
[16:28:06 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> i'll look
[16:28:11 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> thanks (smile)
[16:28:20 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> do we distribute a subversion configuration file, incidentally?
[16:29:03 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> no but we probably should
[16:29:20 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> yeah
[16:29:38 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> i wrote one up for personal use that i'd modified from the sakai distributed one
[16:29:47 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> which is what i used to do our cvs->svn conversion
[16:30:22 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> nice, could you stick it up on the wiki and email the dev list about it?
[16:30:29 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> sure
[16:30:31 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> I want to start an area for uportal devs
[16:30:32 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> have that
[16:30:37 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> maybe some eclipse formatting configs
[16:30:40 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> that sounds like a great idea
[16:30:56 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> i was looking at the recommended code style stuff the other day
[16:31:02 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> one of the things on it would have saved us recently (smile)
[16:31:10 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> yeah I know we have some stuff out there
[16:31:21 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> but it should probably be consolidated and reviewed
[16:31:22 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> what's that?
[16:31:23 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> we had a problem in production because a line had gotten deleted, and the previous like was an if (log.debugEnabled) type statement
[16:31:29 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> ahhh
[16:31:32 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> yes
[16:31:32 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> so when we ran in production with debugging off . . . (smile)
[16:31:37 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> single line if statements == EVIL
[16:31:46 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> i'm really glad susan found that because i would have been mystified for a few days
[16:31:57 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> especially since the first thing i would have done would have been to turn debugging up
[16:32:04 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> which would have made the problem magically go away
[16:32:05 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> lol
[16:32:37 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> yup
[16:32:51 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> stuff like that is such a pain to track down
[16:32:56 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> that and long dotted strings
[16:33:05 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> yeah
[16:33:07 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> you always end up with a null pointer and no clue which de-reference did it
[16:33:25 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> oh well I have to run for a late meeting, catch you tomorrow!
[16:33:30 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> have a good night!
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[16:58:48 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> EiNZTEiN: are you around?
[16:59:54 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> i think i've got some insight into your guest user issue
[17:11:18 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> yes I'm here
[17:11:20 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> sorry (smile)
[17:11:44 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> I'm all ears
[17:11:48 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> athena7
[17:11:52 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> hiya
[17:11:53 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> (smile)
[17:11:58 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> thanks for the poke!
[17:12:01 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> (wink)
[17:12:03 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> ok, so there's a guest user
[17:12:07 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> and a guest-lo user
[17:12:09 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> guest-lo <
[17:12:11 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> ?
[17:12:15 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> there's both
[17:12:19 EDT(-0400)] <EiNZTEiN> hmmmm
[17:12:32 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> guest-lo is the fragment owner, and isn't a layout you would generally see all by itself
[17:12:56 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> the guest user is what's displayed when you're not logged in, and incorporates both its personal layout and the guest fragment
[17:13:17 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> if you want to make changes to the included fragment, probably the best practice would be to make them under the guest-lo user's account
[17:13:35 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> however, if you want to change the skin, or anything like that, you'll need to make that change by logging in as the user "guest"
[17:14:10 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> which i realize is confusing, since we're now talking about being logged in as "guest", being logged in as "guest-lo", and not being logged in and seeing the guest layout, which includes the guest-lo fragment
[17:14:24 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> so did any of that make sense? (smile) which parts would you like me too elaborate on?
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