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[11:01:25 EDT(-0400)] <athena> do we have a convention for how many spaces are in a tab in a JSP?
[11:01:34 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> I don't think so
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[11:07:46 EDT(-0400)] <athena> should we have one?
[11:07:55 EDT(-0400)] <athena> i'm personally finding the 2-space tabs kind of hard read
[11:08:14 EDT(-0400)] <athena> though i guess the level of nesting that goes on in JSPs makes it kind of hard to have too many spaces
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[11:08:52 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> yeah, I'm fine if we want to make it 4
[11:09:09 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> how about 3 
[11:10:38 EDT(-0400)] <athena> i'm fine with either, i think
[11:10:57 EDT(-0400)] <athena> 4's probably most standard
[11:10:59 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> dev guidelines are somewhere on my todo list
[11:11:01 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> yeah
[11:11:04 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> 4 sounds good
[11:11:25 EDT(-0400)] <athena> i guess the only disadvantage of that is that it'll make the screen wide
[11:11:29 EDT(-0400)] <athena> but that's probably not the end of the world
[11:11:35 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> yeah
[11:11:40 EDT(-0400)] <athena> i wish it was easier to keep all the tab characters as spaces
[11:11:55 EDT(-0400)] <athena> i've been finding that if you select a section in eclipse and hit tab it moves it over, but it uses tabs instead of spaces
[11:12:18 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> you should be able to change that
[11:12:18 EDT(-0400)] <athena> can't seem to get around that
[11:12:19 EDT(-0400)] <holdorph> i think there's a way to fix that in eclipse. I did it once, but it was kind of buried
[11:12:28 EDT(-0400)] <athena> i found the setting to change tabs to spaces
[11:12:32 EDT(-0400)] <athena> but only for actually hitting tab
[11:12:42 EDT(-0400)] <athena> didnt' seem to set it for moving a whole section at a time
[11:13:10 EDT(-0400)] <holdorph> i think it was on the environment settings for sakai 3 / kernel 2, they're kind of strict about it there
[11:13:46 EDT(-0400)] <holdorph> athena, no boston today?
[11:13:54 EDT(-0400)] <athena> no, they changed their minds about me going
[11:14:01 EDT(-0400)] <holdorph> lucky you
[11:14:04 EDT(-0400)] <athena> probably just as well - plenty of other things to do
[11:14:06 EDT(-0400)] <athena> yeah
[11:14:22 EDT(-0400)] <athena> i was happy to just go take kris home from the airport last night instead of driving straight from there to boston
[11:16:05 EDT(-0400)] <athena> holdorph: are the sakai 3 settings posted somewhere?
[11:16:31 EDT(-0400)] <holdorph> yeah, but be careful i think they use 2 spaces
[11:16:37 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> Web > HTML Files > Editor
[11:16:50 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> or just go to preferences and search for 'tab'
[11:17:03 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> and you can then change it for all the file types that have it as an option
[11:17:17 EDT(-0400)] <holdorph> http://groups.google.com/group/sakai-kernel/web/k2-code-style
[11:17:18 EDT(-0400)] <athena> thanks, i'll try that
[11:17:58 EDT(-0400)] <athena>
[11:18:31 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> athena: could you create an account at oss.sonatype.org ?
[11:18:35 EDT(-0400)] <athena> oooh that did work
[11:18:38 EDT(-0400)] <athena> thank you guys so much!
[11:18:53 EDT(-0400)] <athena> sure EricDalquist
[11:20:24 EDT(-0400)] <athena> ok, created "jbourey" over there
[11:20:39 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> thanks
[11:20:50 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> it looks like we might be moved over there by next week
[11:22:59 EDT(-0400)] <athena> awesome!
[11:24:26 EDT(-0400)] <athena> should i propose that code style recommendation on-list?
[11:24:56 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> sounds good
[11:25:00 EDT(-0400)] * holdorph ducks for cover
[11:25:05 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> lol
[11:25:15 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> or we could just document it on the wiki
[11:25:19 EDT(-0400)] <athena> that'd be fine too
[11:25:20 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> then just point people to that
[11:25:25 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> give me an hour
[11:25:28 EDT(-0400)] <athena> ok
[11:25:32 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> and I'll see if I can find/make a decent spot
[11:26:14 EDT(-0400)] <athena> sounds great
[11:26:33 EDT(-0400)] <athena> i think it would help w/ some of the confusing commits we've had in the past too
[11:26:46 EDT(-0400)] <athena> where it looks like a lot has changed because all the whitespace was reformatted
[11:27:17 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> yeah
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[11:31:43 EDT(-0400)] <holdorph> i guess one of the reasons I haven't fixed my tabs/spaces, is it seems like you have to redo the work for every new workspace
[11:31:52 EDT(-0400)] <holdorph> and I create workspaces a lot
[11:34:16 EDT(-0400)] <athena> yeah
[11:34:22 EDT(-0400)] <athena> i tend to forget stuff for new workspaces
[11:34:33 EDT(-0400)] <athena> and i've kind of ignored it until now
[11:34:46 EDT(-0400)] <athena> but we're getting to the point where i frequently see changes that affect the entire file for no good reason
[11:35:03 EDT(-0400)] <athena> maybe just because we have more people collaborating on some of these admin JSPs
[11:35:44 EDT(-0400)] <holdorph> yeah. that needs to be strongly discouraged even without coding guidelines
[11:36:00 EDT(-0400)] <holdorph> you should never check in a complete reformat, unless that was specifically the intent of the change
[11:36:07 EDT(-0400)] <athena> yeah
[11:36:10 EDT(-0400)] <athena> agreed
[11:36:17 EDT(-0400)] <holdorph> anyone who is doing that needs to be told to stop
[11:36:24 EDT(-0400)] <athena> yes, probably
[11:36:31 EDT(-0400)] <athena> but setting standards will help the problem too
[11:36:38 EDT(-0400)] <holdorph> repeatedly doing it after being told to stop, should have commit privileges taken away
[11:36:47 EDT(-0400)] <holdorph> maybe
[11:36:55 EDT(-0400)] <athena> i'll put you in charge of the smackdown committee
[11:37:14 EDT(-0400)] <athena> anyway, i don't think anyone's being malicious, and hopefully having some shared standards will help us all out
[11:37:31 EDT(-0400)] <holdorph> it's not malicious, it's unawareness
[11:37:38 EDT(-0400)] <athena> indeed
[11:37:42 EDT(-0400)] <holdorph> and that level of unawareness is dangerous in committers
[11:38:08 EDT(-0400)] <holdorph> because then what else are they unaware they've accidentally done to the file?
[11:38:42 EDT(-0400)] <holdorph> jsp's are even worse, becauase you normally don't have a compiler fail the build for you
[11:47:04 EDT(-0400)] <athena> so EricDalquist are we just going to be using the oss maven repo from now on? and will we still have a spot for non-jasig artifacts there?
[11:47:20 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> we will not have a spot for non-jasig artifacts there
[11:47:28 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> all we are doing is moving org.jasig.* stuff
[11:47:32 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> and org.openregistry
[11:47:46 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> we still need to figure out what we are going to do about that 3rd-party repo
[11:48:08 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> this move has a big plus that sonatype can move things into central for us
[11:48:25 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> but we have to follow the rules and not reference any repo other than central
[11:48:47 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> so ... I'm not sure where that leaves us with the 3rd-party repo
[11:49:41 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> one idea is to simply say 'no more new stuff' and move 3rd-party to a simple hosting service, S3 or similar and just not let people add new 3rd-party libs
[11:49:46 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> it would be a pain at times
[11:50:01 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> but would be required before we can get anything into the central repository anyways
[11:50:32 EDT(-0400)] <athena> yeah, i think we really have to have a spot to add 3rd-party libraries
[11:50:36 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> the end game for this is that by the end of June Jasig needs to not be running/hosting any maven repository
[11:50:50 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> and just give up on publishing things in central?
[11:50:50 EDT(-0400)] <athena> i'm actually pretty worried about not having access to a spot to host those
[11:50:54 EDT(-0400)] <athena> well
[11:51:06 EDT(-0400)] <athena> i guess that's an issue
[11:51:12 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> since that is a hard rule
[11:51:17 EDT(-0400)] <athena> gotcha
[11:51:21 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> if an artifact needs something from 3rd-party
[11:51:24 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> it cannot go into central
[11:51:26 EDT(-0400)] <athena> tryign to think how much we have in 3rd party now
[11:52:05 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> here are the full set of requirements for an artifact to go to central: https://docs.sonatype.com/display/NX/OSS+Repository+Hosting#OSSRepositoryHosting-CentralSyncUpRequirements
[11:53:50 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> well we have a few months to figure it out
[11:54:02 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> moving to something like S3 would still let us add stuff
[11:54:08 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> it would just be MUCH more difficult
[11:54:25 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> which is arguably a good thing
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[12:17:00 EDT(-0400)] <awills> Eric – i have a fix for that channel export thing. btw, just doing some diligence now
[12:20:08 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> awills: great
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[12:57:04 EDT(-0400)] <athena> EricDalquist: i'm guessing probably the biggest missing dependency right now is the owasp jar
[12:57:07 EDT(-0400)] <athena> not sure if that's available anywhere
[12:57:19 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> what is that for?
[12:57:46 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> looks like it might be going to sonatype hosting: http://oss.sonatype.org/index.html#nexus-search;quick~owasp
[12:57:47 EDT(-0400)] <athena> their anti-samy tool, which we're using in a couple places
[12:57:50 EDT(-0400)] <athena> awesome!
[12:57:59 EDT(-0400)] <athena> not sure if we have much else missing
[12:58:06 EDT(-0400)] <athena> ical4j i guess
[12:58:15 EDT(-0400)] <athena> they have their own local repository, not sure it's available in central
[12:58:33 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> yeah, it isn't
[12:58:36 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> nickb knows more about that
[12:58:57 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> so we can never really get rid of the 3rd-party, stuff is published that references it
[12:59:03 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> I think the plan is to just make it harder to add stuff
[12:59:19 EDT(-0400)] <athena> gotcha
[12:59:33 EDT(-0400)] <athena> just need to make sure we have a plan for stuff like ical4j moving forward
[12:59:39 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> and hope that less and less isn't available in central or other repos
[12:59:44 EDT(-0400)] <athena> and right now ical4j depends on slide, which probably isn't in central either
[12:59:48 EDT(-0400)] <athena> and that project is actually dead
[12:59:53 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> neat
[12:59:55 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> always fun
[13:21:37 EDT(-0400)] <athena> yeah
[13:21:47 EDT(-0400)] <athena> think they're at least talking about changing to whatever the successor is
[14:18:42 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> time for some wiki gardening
[14:23:28 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> deleted at least 20 pages that just said:
[14:23:29 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> This page is part of the Aggregated Layout Management Convergence 2.x effort that will be added to 3.x. Coming soon...
[14:27:44 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> athena: http://www.ja-sig.org/wiki/display/UPC/Developer+Conventions
[14:27:47 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> for the tabs
[14:28:33 EDT(-0400)] <athena> great!
[14:28:38 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> brb
[14:28:44 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> well in a bit .. meeting time
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[15:56:50 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> oi ... what to do about old wiki pages
[15:57:00 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> like a page documenting the tool for upgrading a uportal 2.1 db to a 2.3 db
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