...
[12:35:00 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> sounds good, are you going to setup the overlay and stuff?
[12:35:10 CST(-0600)] <drewwills> yes i can/ am happy to
[12:35:50 CST(-0600)] <athena> can we maybe talk about splitting out a jsr-286 branch for that, if it's going to be included in up4?
[12:36:07 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> I'm fine with bundling more stuff as long as it participates in filtering (db, logging, etc) correctly, and has a reasonable default dataset and portlet definition
[12:36:38 CST(-0600)] <athena> i think we also need to take import/export into consideration
[12:36:41 CST(-0600)] <drewwills> athena I don't believe any 286 work has been done on that one yet
[12:37:03 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> where does this thing store data?
[12:37:39 CST(-0600)] <drewwills> it has an interface-based API for pulling data... doesn't store it, unless you write one to store data
[12:37:56 CST(-0600)] <drewwills> for the demo experience it pulls demo data from the classpath
[12:38:05 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> ok, so what is the concern around import/export athena?
[12:38:24 CST(-0600)] <athena> none, since it doesn't store data 
[12:38:25 CST(-0600)] <drewwills> i thought that was just a general concern
[12:39:06 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> ah ok
[12:44:25 CST(-0600)] <Arvids1> regarding notifications - i´ve implemented another notificaton portlet (inspired by previously mentioned) but with some differences - concurrent notification retrieval, no extended description (hence no ajax)
[12:45:03 CST(-0600)] <Arvids1> ... and of course - changes in data classes
[12:46:18 CST(-0600)] <athena> would it make sense to contribute some of that back so we can all contribute to a shared project?
[12:46:32 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> +1 to that
[12:46:45 CST(-0600)] <Arvids1> requirements must be discussed, since i´ve taken a little bit another approach
[12:46:50 CST(-0600)] <athena> so i guess my biggest concern with including the notifications portlet out of the box right now is that it's a young project and the APIs might need to change
[12:47:06 CST(-0600)] <athena> and we may need to pull in changes brought up by things arvids or other schools notice
[12:47:23 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> ah
[12:47:35 CST(-0600)] <Arvids1> now it would be nice to have notification portlet on github
[12:47:35 CST(-0600)] <athena> i guess we just need to decide what level of API changes we're willing to have in a portlet between portal version numbers
[12:47:51 CST(-0600)] <athena> yes, moving to github would also help w/ the JSR-286 changes
[12:48:07 CST(-0600)] <athena> the umobile effort would like to use the notifications portlet to drive some new functionality
[12:48:19 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> one thing we should talk about with moving projects to github is how incubation on github will work
[12:48:32 CST(-0600)] <athena> particuarly add an event-based API so that other portlets could potentially publish notifications, then pull them all down in one JSON feed
[12:48:46 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> yeah
[12:49:02 CST(-0600)] <athena> do we have concerns about incubation on github?
[12:49:13 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> well just project designations
[12:49:49 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> part of my wants to say that only post-incubation projects should end up under the jasig org and in-incubation projects should stay in the account of whoever the sponsor is until they complete
[12:49:57 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> but that probably isn't actually realistic
[12:50:31 CST(-0600)] <athena> that would also make collaboration really hard
[12:50:47 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> yeah, I know
[12:50:49 CST(-0600)] <athena> i'd worry that that would discourage people from working together
[12:51:29 CST(-0600)] <athena> maybe we can just track which projects are sponsored /incubated in the wiki or somewhere else?
[12:51:34 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> yeah
[12:51:38 CST(-0600)] <athena> i think that's where most people get information about the portlets already, at least
[12:51:47 CST(-0600)] <athena> coudl have a similar page that's not portlet-specific
[12:52:15 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> we could also require that incubating projects have a github readme doc that states such
[12:52:18 CST(-0600)] <Arvids1> implementing notification portlet using event API is a bit problematic since events can not be published at rendering
[12:52:24 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> so that looking at the project page is informative
[12:53:07 CST(-0600)] <athena> EricDalquist: that seems helpful. what's our timeline on git migration? i think it'd probably be helpful to move as soon as we can
[12:53:22 CST(-0600)] <athena> Arvids1: we haven't experimented with it yet at all, but it seems like we could use a resource request?
[12:53:22 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> I'll take a look at the list and add some other projects
[12:53:36 CST(-0600)] <athena> sounds good
[12:53:43 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> the actual timeline will depend on who can help
[12:53:52 CST(-0600)] <athena> maybe when we've added everything we want, we could send a note out to the list
[12:53:53 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> I have near zero spare time between now and April 5
[12:53:54 CST(-0600)] <athena> what needs to be done?
[12:54:55 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> https://github.com/Jasig/svn2git-migration
[12:55:07 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> the readme for that project should detail the steps
[12:55:21 CST(-0600)] <athena> makes sense
[12:55:37 CST(-0600)] <athena> anyway, i'd be willing to help out with that
[12:55:40 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> assuming we aren't doing a read only SVN mirror of anything the work isn't too bad
[12:55:48 CST(-0600)] <athena> i have a pretty high incentive to move right now, since it would make my life a lot easier
[12:55:51 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> probably a few hours of setup and testing
[12:56:01 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> and then 15-30 minutes per project
[12:56:11 CST(-0600)] <athena> that seems fine
[12:57:24 CST(-0600)] <Arvids1> A screenshot from my version of portlet: http://oi40.tinypic.com/33nj4wi.jpg
[12:58:06 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> we should also touch base with scheduling assistant and open registry
[12:58:11 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> see if they want to be moved
[12:58:20 CST(-0600)] <athena> makes sense
[12:59:18 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> so why isn't everything under /portlets listed?
[12:59:44 CST(-0600)] <athena> i listed everything that i personally know something about and know is being maintained
[12:59:53 CST(-0600)] <athena> there are some portlets on there that i don't really know anything about
[13:00:21 CST(-0600)] <athena> like the xythos and deployer portlets
[13:00:28 CST(-0600)] <athena> i think everything else is listed
[13:00:31 CST(-0600)] <athena> except for tabbed search
[13:00:43 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> ok
[13:00:49 CST(-0600)] <athena> which hasn't been contributed to in quite a while and i don't intend to maintain going forward
[13:00:57 CST(-0600)] <athena> i've recommend that that one be dropped from incubation
[13:01:04 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> and do we have a consensus as to what we should do with the stuff in svn?
[13:01:13 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> do we delete them from HEAD?
[13:01:18 CST(-0600)] <athena> sounds reasonable to me
[13:02:21 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> ok I added a few more items to the list
[13:04:01 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> can you email the uportal-dev and portlet-dev lists with the list asking if anyone would like any other projects want to get moved?
[13:04:11 CST(-0600)] <athena> sure
[13:04:29 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> set a deadline of like the 7th and then you can pick a date to do the actual move
[13:05:01 CST(-0600)] <athena> sounds great
[13:05:02 CST(-0600)] <athena>
[13:09:29 CST(-0600)] <athena> ok, so back to the notifications portlet
[13:09:45 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> ok
[13:09:47 CST(-0600)] <athena> what level of API consistency do we want to have from bundled portlets?
[13:10:11 CST(-0600)] <athena> i think in the past we've been pretty cautious about only including portlets that have fairly mature, stable APIs
[13:10:25 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> hrm
[13:10:28 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> I'm not sure
[13:10:29 CST(-0600)] <athena> and for those that aren't there yet (like the courses portlet), we've included mockups with a link to more information about the actual portlet
[13:10:42 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> I haven't really thought about that as much
[13:10:44 CST(-0600)] <athena> i'm not saying that that's necessarily what we need to keep doing, but i think that's generally what we've been doing until now
[13:11:01 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> since it is significantly easier to simply specify an earlier version of a specific portlet
[13:11:07 CST(-0600)] <athena> yeah
[13:11:08 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> even when doing a big uPortal upgrade
[13:11:24 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> very rarely should a uPortal upgrade break an old portlet
[13:11:43 CST(-0600)] <athena> and i'd imagine that schools that are sophisticated enough to create their own API implementations will be able to drop the version number back down if needed
[13:12:23 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> yup
[13:12:25 CST(-0600)] <athena> kind of annoying to have a portal upgrade break your portlet because it updated the version number, but i guess that's maybe just not that hard to resolve
[13:14:23 CST(-0600)] <athena> actually, as a general point
[13:14:35 CST(-0600)] <athena> in the past we've required portlets to actually be sponsored by jasig before including them
[13:14:46 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> that was going to be a question I had
[13:14:49 CST(-0600)] <athena> yeah
[13:14:59 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> if we don't have any incubating stuff bundled
[13:15:03 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> then that seems reasonable to continue
[13:15:21 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> and if a project dev is motivated getting out of incubation should be able to happen very fast
[13:15:27 CST(-0600)] <athena> yeah, we actually worked pretty hard to get all those included portlets through the queue
[13:15:42 CST(-0600)] <athena> i'll check and see if we actually got that finished
[13:15:50 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> pl
[13:15:52 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> ok
[13:16:34 CST(-0600)] <athena> heh
[13:16:40 CST(-0600)] <athena> bookmarks and widgets are both still in incubation
[13:16:44 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> 
[13:17:26 CST(-0600)] <athena> not actually sure why on the widgets
[13:17:36 CST(-0600)] <athena> bookmarks just hasn't been updated in forever
[13:17:40 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> bookmarks is likely my fault
[13:17:41 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> and yes
[13:17:49 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> I think it is out of fear I'll break it if I touch it
[13:17:52 CST(-0600)] <athena> but any new portlets we've included are indeed fully sponsored
[13:17:53 CST(-0600)] <athena> yeah 
[14:00:34 CST(-0600)] <athena> have you guys published the code for your HR portlets yet?
[14:00:44 CST(-0600)] <athena> thinking that that might be another good portlet to include as a mockup
[14:00:57 CST(-0600)] <athena> would give us some more interesting data for staff / faculty demo accounts
[14:01:10 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> no
[14:01:16 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> I've been too busy with our upgrade
[14:01:21 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> I'll see if I can find/make time for that
[14:01:26 CST(-0600)] <athena> no worries
[14:01:31 CST(-0600)] <athena> just thinking about the future
[14:01:41 CST(-0600)] <athena> we need to re-poke jim about default layout suggestions too
[14:09:35 CST(-0600)] <awills_bbl> i don't think it's an issue to include portlets that are incubating... actually I think it could make a big difference in promoting them... persuating new schools to make contributions... it's nice to see a good buffet of options when you spin the portal up for evaluation
[14:10:58 CST(-0600)] <drewwills> and I suggest that backwards-compatible APIs are a priority whether a portlet is bundled or not
[14:11:12 CST(-0600)] <athena> i think in the past we've tried to include content that we can be assured will continue to be in future versions of uportal
[14:11:21 CST(-0600)] <athena> and i agree that backwards-compatible APIs are definitely warranted
[14:11:50 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> so here is my question
[14:11:58 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> why isn't the portlet past incubation already?
[14:12:01 CST(-0600)] <athena> though there's an argument to be made that for a very young project, it makes sense to take some time to work out the APIs with several different schools before making them so formal that we need to start doing work to make them backwards compatible
[14:12:03 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> what are the roadblocks
[14:12:20 CST(-0600)] <athena> i haven't looked at the JIRA, but one of the most common reasons is adoption
[14:12:21 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> if this is simply a matter of the incu committee needs to do a review and promot it
[14:12:23 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> I'm fine
[14:12:28 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> hrm
[14:12:31 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> I didn'
[14:12:35 CST(-0600)] <athena> and as drew points out, it's harder to get adoption if it's not included in the portal
[14:12:42 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> didn't realize that adoption was one of the criteria
[14:12:46 CST(-0600)] <athena> yep
[14:12:55 CST(-0600)] <athena> and also contribution from multiple sources
[14:13:00 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> that can be rather catch-22ish
[14:13:04 CST(-0600)] <athena> yes.
[14:13:08 CST(-0600)] <drewwills> Manchester is using it, and there are 3-4 at least with ideas on the roadmap for it
[14:13:40 CST(-0600)] <drewwills> and I'd like to use it with a special project that's likely to start in the next few weeks as well
[14:13:48 CST(-0600)] <athena> do you know what's holding it up w/ incubation then?
[14:13:57 CST(-0600)] <drewwills> i don't actually
[14:14:07 CST(-0600)] <drewwills> let me see if i can find it
[14:14:17 CST(-0600)] <athena> maybe worth pinging the list if it's not clear
[14:14:25 CST(-0600)] <athena> see if they just haven't met on it yet or whatever
[14:14:28 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> yeah
[14:14:32 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> if you could do that
[14:14:42 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> I'm guessing we can then green-light getting it bundled
[14:15:30 CST(-0600)] <drewwills> tbh it hasn't been on the top of my priority list to get out of incubation in the past... graduated vs. incubating doesn't stop me from deploying it with a school i'm working with... but I'm looking now
[14:21:01 CST(-0600)] <drewwills> so all the concrete bits are done... the other bits are kinda subjective
[14:21:28 CST(-0600)] <drewwills> https://wiki.jasig.org/display/INCU/Incubation+Process starting about middle of page
[14:21:50 CST(-0600)] <athena> maybe just make sure the JIRA is up to date and email the list?
[14:24:00 CST(-0600)] <drewwills> well it's a portlet so it would share the portlet-dev email list
[14:26:31 CST(-0600)] <drewwills> OHIO, Nazareth, SCSU, and Oakland have all expressed interest in using it
[14:26:48 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> I'm fine with getting it incubated
[14:26:58 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> it should also be getting moved to github with the rest of the portlets
[14:27:11 CST(-0600)] <drewwills> +1 github
[14:27:25 CST(-0600)] <drewwills> you mean fine getting it bundled, correct?
[14:27:27 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> and we need to make sure we're encouraging people to focus on this
[14:27:28 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> yes
[14:27:34 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> sorry
[14:27:45 CST(-0600)] <athena> yeah i have it on the list of projects to move
[14:28:07 CST(-0600)] <drewwills> cool beans... I just wrote benito G to catch up in the status in fact
[15:50:39 CST(-0600)] <Arvids1> for the reference: our uPortal 4.x version is in production now.... finally.... yay!
[15:50:48 CST(-0600)] <EricDalquist> awesome!
[15:51:24 CST(-0600)] <athena> YAY!
[15:51:38 CST(-0600)] <athena> just out of curiosity, are you using any of the mobile stuff yet?
[15:52:27 CST(-0600)] <Arvids1> just mobile theme (with minor modifications)
[15:52:48 CST(-0600)] <athena> cool
[15:53:15 CST(-0600)] <Arvids1> mobile part might be weak for us now, but we chose not to exclude it, but evolve it later
[15:53:52 CST(-0600)] <Arvids1> ... on the other hand there´s nothing much of it - it´s pretty ascetic (as it should be)