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[13:01:02 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> Greetings battags, MarvinAddison
[13:02:23 CDT(-0500)] <battags> hey
[13:03:43 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> Anything particularly need discussing in this our designated IRC timeslot?
[13:04:09 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> Dev Meetup NYC seemed to go well, we could recap that and discuss what and how to surface info, initiatives, requests, insights from it
[13:04:33 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> We could treat specifically discussion of password policy there-at and path forward on that
[13:05:01 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> battags, maybe update on CAS 4 tech preview release thingy status and prognosis?
[13:05:36 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> Or, we could decide the in-person meetup was our event for the week and plan on picking this up again one week from now in IRC chat.
[13:06:36 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> I'm officially here now – person at desk.
[13:07:12 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> Cool, MarvinAddison. I think we're still in the agenda-bash phase of the weekly IRC meetup.
[13:07:14 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> How late did meetup go?
[13:07:45 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> Depends on how you count. It was 10am to 4:30pm physically in the meeting space, with some relevant discussion in the pub immediately after for, what, a couple hours?
[13:07:55 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> Wow, that's good.
[13:08:00 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> very good
[13:08:00 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> Turnout?
[13:08:04 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> and nothing like enough time
[13:08:09 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> Always that way.
[13:08:17 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> battags, what was actual turnout? 18ish? Less?
[13:08:21 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> It felt like a crowd
[13:08:45 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> I haven't worked through my notes and post-processing yet, so I don't yet have a good record of the event
[13:09:01 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> That's fine.
[13:09:28 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> Highlights: Scott H on .NET CAS client
[13:09:36 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> Good, good.
[13:09:40 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> very nice live demo of the example app included in, discussion of its design and features
[13:09:48 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> Any talk of Sharepoint?
[13:09:50 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> I recorded that on video cam, haven't looked at the recording yet
[13:09:55 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> talk, yes
[13:09:59 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> Good.
[13:10:00 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> definitive answers? no
[13:10:07 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> but Howard Gilbert in particular had relevant ideas
[13:10:21 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> and I have as an action item to send him some email baiting him to ellaborate further
[13:10:23 CDT(-0500)] <apetro>
[13:10:24 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> We need to help keep that discussion alive.
[13:10:36 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> Definitely
[13:10:43 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> it's worth having a practical, executable answer on
[13:10:50 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> I'll encourage Scott to show up to dev chat next week.
[13:10:54 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> You tackle Howard.
[13:11:00 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> I'd like to hear the discussion first hand.
[13:11:04 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> discussed sustainability of CAS project
[13:11:13 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> components, who's active in maintaining components
[13:11:21 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> talked around role of Unicon's Coop Support program in this
[13:11:23 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> That's healthy discussion.
[13:11:30 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> I think I stayed on the proper side of that line
[13:11:39 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> I'm sure.
[13:11:50 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> was news, pleasant news, to many that there's any support and that there's resulting bandwidth funding maintenance efforts
[13:12:12 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> Matt from UConn in particular was looking for ammo for articulating sustainability of project upwards
[13:12:24 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> might be worth following up with him to harvest whatever writeup he produces
[13:12:41 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> battags talked, showed code, showed APIs in CAS 4
[13:12:56 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> Good discussion of password policy feature
[13:13:13 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> Howard Gilbert extemporaneously presented on how Yale has, differently, solved the same feature requirements
[13:13:43 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> general agreement in the room that moving forward with polishing add-on for this good idea in sandbox, tackling feature more directly in trunk good idea
[13:13:45 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> Might be good to document existing use cases.
[13:13:51 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> yes
[13:14:01 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> there was some of that at the whiteboard, definitely needs captured re-usably
[13:14:12 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> I'd recommend page in CAS wiki.
[13:14:14 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> Andrew T. has photos of numerous whiteboard instances, need to follow up with him to ensure posted
[13:14:22 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> yes
[13:14:23 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> on two fronts
[13:14:31 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> both building out pages on wiki documenting this meetup event
[13:14:36 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> good place for those whiteboard captures
[13:14:46 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> and then also page(s) in CAS wiki documenting out the password policy project
[13:15:04 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> discussion of going further and implementing password reset user experiences themselves
[13:15:15 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> Andrew T. has actually done this, shared code
[13:15:26 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> If there's any real value to the content of the whiteboarding, it should be distilled into text.
[13:15:43 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> I think there was consensus that's "a bridge too far" at this point for CAS as project, though the contributed code is quite welcome
[13:16:06 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> but that bridge too far feeling was my bias, so worth hashing that out and see how much I'm projecting
[13:16:08 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> I'd be curious to see what he's done since we just did it ourselves.
[13:16:13 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> heh
[13:16:15 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> right
[13:16:31 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> and there we have evidence that maybe CAS should productize and have a well-defined add-on for this feature
[13:16:42 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> My hunch is that integration iwth other systems will make reset hard.
[13:16:43 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> password policy itself first, I guess
[13:17:07 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> battags, what other highlights am I missing?
[13:17:55 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> brain dumping here is fun, but at a coordination level, seems like we need 1) Planning to make NYC CAS Meetup recap a focus of a really-happens CAS community call,
[13:18:03 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> 2) writeup of summary in wiki
[13:18:15 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> I'm thinking 2 will facilitate 1.
[13:18:19 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> and probably 3) somekind of news presence for this, maybe a news item on CAS website declaring a successful event
[13:18:39 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> Does anyone really read the news?
[13:19:00 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> can't read it if it's not there
[13:19:17 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> dunno. It's one input to the Jasig newsletter
[13:19:22 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> I think Unicon syndicates it
[13:20:03 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> if that's a serious question, I think I have access to the Jasig.org Google Analytics reporting, I could probably figure out hit count on the news page and feed
[13:21:06 CDT(-0500)] <battags> sorry people were at my desk
[13:21:08 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> So, I think I have an Action Item to update Jasig wiki to reflect event, password policy requirements / design thoughts
[13:21:09 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> I'm merely curious.
[13:21:13 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> k
[13:21:24 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> I'll take the Action Item to get into that Google Analytics report and report back to cas-steer
[13:21:40 CDT(-0500)] <battags> we can give Marvin access to Google Analytics I think
[13:21:42 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> It'd be good to know if it's being read, to justify work.
[13:21:59 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> battags, good call
[13:22:07 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> you want the AI to privilege Marvin, or want me to take it?
[13:22:36 CDT(-0500)] <battags> I can do it
[13:22:37 CDT(-0500)] <battags> let me check
[13:22:50 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> great
[13:23:09 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> battags, you and I are on the hook to deliver the next CAS Community Call with topic NYC CAS Meetup recap, right?
[13:24:22 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> While you're Sleepless in Seattle, we can both continue to update wiki and turn that into outline for that call.
[13:26:06 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> You guys need private home offices.
[13:26:33 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> I'm here, just quiet.
[13:26:45 CDT(-0500)] <battags> marvin you should have access now
[13:26:49 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> URL?
[13:26:55 CDT(-0500)] <battags> analytics.google.com
[13:27:04 CDT(-0500)] <battags> apetro, yes we're on the hook
[13:27:14 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> cool
[13:27:26 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> I'm in, tx.
[13:28:00 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> not sure it is able to do metrics on the RSS feed itself, and those metrics will only be sort of valuable since whatever consumes the feed almost certainly caches
[13:28:34 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> battags, thoughts on, prognosis for, a 3.4.7 patch release?
[13:29:52 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> Report is showing 0 visits.
[13:29:56 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> That doesn't seem right.
[13:30:08 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> From first of year to now is the period.
[13:30:14 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> yeah
[13:30:18 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> that's definitely wrong
[13:30:18 CDT(-0500)] <battags> 3.4.7 patch will be soon
[13:30:24 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> I have personally visited that page this year
[13:30:33 CDT(-0500)] <battags> I got suckered into having to read a 65 page mortgage application
[13:30:36 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> Sure, me too. Someone else should take a look.
[13:30:38 CDT(-0500)] <battags> and I had 48 hours to turn it around
[13:30:48 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> congratulations on the mortgage
[13:30:52 CDT(-0500)] <battags> hoping to do it tonight or tomorrow
[13:30:53 CDT(-0500)] <battags> thanks
[13:31:00 CDT(-0500)] <battags> and then merging the changes into CAS4
[13:31:09 CDT(-0500)] <battags> and cutting both 3.4.7 and 4.0 M1
[13:31:10 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> protip: besides owning a sump pump, it's best for it to be in working condition.
[13:31:17 CDT(-0500)] <battags> ha
[13:31:18 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> haha
[13:31:21 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> +1
[13:31:39 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> I've got a good story in that regard for in person sometime.
[13:31:47 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> And now, so do I.
[13:32:08 CDT(-0500)] <battags> wow lol
[13:32:10 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> battags, that sounds excellent, both on the 3.4 patch and 4.0 milestone front
[13:32:11 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> Mine is more like a "Learn from My Fail."
[13:32:15 CDT(-0500)] <battags> btw something is wrong with the analytics
[13:32:23 CDT(-0500)] <battags> let's make sure jasig.org is actually sending the data
[13:32:23 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> Indeed
[13:32:29 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> k
[13:32:30 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> I'm thinking no.
[13:32:33 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> great
[13:32:39 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> let's make this Web Chuck Web's problem
[13:33:11 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> shall I take the action item of escalating that to Web Chuck, probably CC:ing in infrastructure or somebody?
[13:33:32 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> I think you just volunteered yourself.
[13:33:36 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> k
[13:33:59 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> RE 3.4.7...
[13:34:06 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> What are highlight issues/fixes?
[13:34:16 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> Login Ticket restored to spec compliance
[13:34:26 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> Wow, that was quick.
[13:34:38 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> battags deserves all the credit, of course
[13:34:42 CDT(-0500)] <battags> it was the biggest pain in the butt
[13:34:46 CDT(-0500)] <apetro>
[13:34:53 CDT(-0500)] <battags> Spring Web Flow is not readily extensible in that area
[13:35:07 CDT(-0500)] <battags> nor is it config friendly if you're not using their name space
[13:35:38 CDT(-0500)] <battags> I might fold in the propertyconfigurer change for cas-servlet.xml since we're editing the file anyway
[13:35:38 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> appreciate your taking care of that, Scott
[13:35:55 CDT(-0500)] <battags> I can't complain too much when cooperative support paid me to do it
[13:36:12 CDT(-0500)] <battags> getting paid for the painful/non-cool tasks helps
[13:36:18 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> funding gruntwork CAS maintenance. Focusing on pains in the butt. This is Coop Dev at its finest.
[13:36:18 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> Indeed.
[13:36:32 CDT(-0500)] <battags> if working on CAS was all rainbows and shiny frameworks
[13:36:43 CDT(-0500)] <battags> I would do everything for free lol
[13:37:02 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> well, mostly Coop Dev doesn't fund the rainbows part. Not designed for that.
[13:37:07 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> I just reviewed that commit – does look like a pain.
[13:37:10 CDT(-0500)] <battags> well I would probably do it anyway but at a slower pace
[13:37:14 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> Though I imagine I've cornered a couple rainbows on password policy
[13:37:21 CDT(-0500)] <battags> I have to double check if I can clean up the code at all
[13:37:38 CDT(-0500)] <battags> password policy will probably be more fun to work on
[13:37:41 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> something articulate in release notes?
[13:37:51 CDT(-0500)] <battags> ?
[13:37:59 CDT(-0500)] <battags> rainbows?
[13:38:30 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> probably good to give 3.4.7 upgraders a heads up that LT restored to spec compliance, consequence for any bad-idea password replay integrations anyone set up
[13:39:01 CDT(-0500)] <battags> ah yes
[13:39:53 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> k
[13:40:15 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> I felt like I made no progress at the NYC Meetup in thinking about dev days post-Jasig-conference
[13:40:36 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> Benno raised issue of conflct with ACAMP but didn't seem to offer resolution on that issue
[13:40:41 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> He's like me – just raised the issue
[13:41:13 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> So ACAMP starts on first dev day?
[13:41:14 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> Next step for that still to create page in wiki for folks to articulate intent to be there, priorities and agenda bash?
[13:41:18 CDT(-0500)] <battags> well we ran out of time on a bunch of stuff
[13:41:25 CDT(-0500)] <battags> including best practices
[13:41:54 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> battags , yes, running out of time on best practices discussion was a real shame, thought just not time for all we could have done at that meetup
[13:42:05 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> MarvinAddison , yes-ish
[13:42:31 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> I think ACAMP starts Wed afternoon (with Jasig concluding noon-ish?), but really gets going Thu and Fri, exactly when Dev Days are
[13:42:40 CDT(-0500)] <battags> I think that's the case
[13:42:46 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> could squint at schedules for the two conferences and confirm details on that
[13:42:49 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> Ok, direct overlap.
[13:42:50 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> but something like that
[13:42:59 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> your Jasig conf registration gives you access to ACAMP Wed PM
[13:43:14 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> I suggest crashing the reception if there is one; ACAMP receptions are always good.
[13:43:14 CDT(-0500)] <battags> there is a discount if you sign up for both
[13:43:49 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> but yes. Direct overlap
[13:43:57 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> I'm pretty invested in making dev days productive w/r/t CAS.
[13:44:05 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> Suggestions where to create "idea bash"?
[13:44:40 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> CAS space page linked from conference pages?
[13:44:47 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> ack
[13:45:07 CDT(-0500)] <battags> ack?
[13:45:14 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> "acknowledged"
[13:45:29 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> my marching orders from Unicon are to do dev days productive w/r/t CAS as well, and not to attend ACAMP, as valuable (and distracting) as that would be.
[13:45:56 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> I believe Unicon is sending arybicki to ACAMP, which will be great – ACAMP is a good thing – but also terrible, in that he'd add a lot of value to Dev Days
[13:45:59 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> Anyone know the Spring conference root page offhand?
[13:46:23 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> guess we've already discussed this, since I'm remembering the insight that arybicki can represent CAS to ACAMP, look for CAS opportunities and ideally articulate them back to other CAS devs
[13:46:26 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> We're probably going to be seeing/hearing a version of that story a lot.
[13:47:23 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> https://wiki.jasig.org/display/JCON/Spring+2011+Westminster
[13:47:59 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> wonder if we could get dev days to appear at end of this program schedule https://www.concentra-cms.com/program/Jasig/48/
[13:48:03 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> help potentials to be aware of it
[13:48:32 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> https://wiki.jasig.org/display/CAS/2011+Spring+Conference+Developer+Days
[13:48:47 CDT(-0500)] <battags> I can ask for it to be added to the schedule if possible
[13:48:57 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> hmm. That ACAMP reception is Wed evening
[13:49:06 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> Should be there to help increase awareness.
[13:49:10 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> yes
[13:49:16 CDT(-0500)] <battags> I'm hoping we start design for Services Management before the end of May :-p
[13:49:31 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> I'll take an action item to poke Concentra specifically about that ACAMP reception
[13:49:48 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> would be valuable to ensure that Dev Days folks in particular, and remaining Jasigers more generally, have access to that
[13:50:13 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> I'm planning to bring code to review.
[13:50:31 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> "Is this a good design" should be an easy discussion.
[13:50:40 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> Better than, "How should it look?"
[13:51:56 CDT(-0500)] <battags> code is always nice
[13:52:14 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> not always. But I bet Marvin's will be.
[13:52:34 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> showed the new CAS manual makings to folks at meetup
[13:52:37 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> I'm going to move the dev days page into the jcon space since I made it general.
[13:52:48 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> that sounds fine
[13:55:25 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> Getting to end of hour, anything else particularly need discussed?
[13:56:40 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> Just wanted to mention some work I'm doing.
[13:57:20 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> I've had a need for a team of VMs that contain CAS client(s) and server(s) to test various features.
[13:58:07 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> It occurred to me at some point this work could be leveraged for VM appliances that are distributed for testing, evaluation, and even production use if done right.
[13:58:16 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> I'll keep you posted on this as it matures.
[13:59:23 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> New link to dev days agenda, https://wiki.jasig.org/display/JCON/2011+Spring+Conference+Developer+Days.
[14:01:22 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> neat
[14:02:36 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> k. Going to return attention to other projects and work through these several action items.
[14:03:04 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> battags, listen to some good audio books on your flight across the country
[14:03:45 CDT(-0500)] <battags> I'm allowed to use a Kindle also
[14:06:16 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> Did I mention how pleased I am with my Nook?
[14:07:54 CDT(-0500)] <battags> apparently you're willing to settle for subpar ebook readers
[14:07:57 CDT(-0500)] <battags> j/k
[14:08:35 CDT(-0500)] <battags> more importantly the Thunderbolt is finally out for Verizon
[14:08:48 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> I just learned Nook has Android underneath, and is moddable to boot.
[14:10:22 CDT(-0500)] <battags> the newer ones are LCD screens though I believe
[14:10:26 CDT(-0500)] <battags> which is hard to read in sunlight
[14:10:33 CDT(-0500)] <battags> I think apetro has the older e-ink based one
[14:10:56 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> No argument – e-ink beats LCD for readability.
[14:11:01 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> Right. The traditional Nook is e-ink. I got it certified pre-owned.
[14:11:15 CDT(-0500)] <battags> was it really certified? lol
[14:11:17 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> Nook Color is LCD and runs Android, and yes, is moddable to boot real Android
[14:11:27 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> Yup. Some kind of warranty
[14:12:06 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> low-hassle-ness of buying from BN.com, but not quite the retail price. Still feels like a great move.
[14:14:09 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> so now we need to get the CAS documentation spiffed up, compile it to ePub, and then I can read it on my eReader.
[14:14:41 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> I hope to facilitate your vision
[14:19:21 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> In a loosely CAS-related context
[14:19:43 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> following up on feedback that SSL cert issues are still the toughest issues in CAS projects
[14:19:54 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> which made me go look at this again: http://www.incommonfederation.org/cert/
[14:20:15 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> Not sure how that would help.
[14:20:18 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> specifically, the thought seems to be that if commercial certs are used in all contexts, even dev
[14:20:24 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> then less thrash lost to fighting with self-signed certs
[14:20:28 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> zero marginal cost for real certs
[14:20:36 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> so therefore school can use them everywhere
[14:20:53 CDT(-0500)] <MarvinAddison> I think there's some value to that train of thought.
[14:21:00 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> certainly very much an edge problem, a loosely-CAS-related context