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[09:58:45 CDT(-0500)] <mklein21005> I'm working on the CONFIG view for my portlet. When you submit the form it gives me a requested resource is not available error. Heres my controller class http://pastebin.com/RVXh1j0m Any ideas of what im doing wrong?
[10:37:39 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> yay! resource urls in config mode are working
[10:37:40 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> finally
[10:50:28 CDT(-0500)] <athena> yay!
[10:50:44 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> so resource requests in webflow work but are a little weird
[10:51:17 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> you just use a view-state
[10:51:34 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> so I had to write a custom View impl that does portlet delegation
[10:51:41 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> but it works
[10:51:58 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> the cms portlet makes resource requests back to itself through the edit-porltet webflow
[10:52:02 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> I'm doing one last pass through jira
[10:52:06 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> then going to work on the release
[10:52:55 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> do you have a few minutes to do one last review of any open issues with fixfor 4.0?
[10:55:27 CDT(-0500)] <athena> after i get off this coop support call
[10:55:55 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> sounds good
[10:55:58 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> I was meaning to be on that
[10:56:20 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> but elsa had a rough night so I was trading off watching elsa and sleeping this morning
[10:59:49 CDT(-0500)] <athena> aww
[11:03:07 CDT(-0500)] <athena> does the gadgets portlet work ok now?
[11:03:35 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> not sure, I'll check in just a minute
[11:12:58 CDT(-0500)] <athena> don't see anything else in jira
[11:13:22 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> ok
[11:13:35 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> I'll plan on moving the rest of the issues to 4.0.1 or 4.1
[11:13:45 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> I'm getting the updated pluto taglib jar released right now
[11:14:28 CDT(-0500)] <athena> yay (smile)
[11:14:48 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> kind of a pain
[11:14:51 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> can't use the release plugin
[11:15:00 CDT(-0500)] <athena> how come?
[11:15:10 CDT(-0500)] <athena> oh, for pluto?
[11:15:12 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> yeah
[12:38:35 CDT(-0500)] <athena> ok EricDalquist1
[12:38:43 CDT(-0500)] <athena> so gadget portlet is not yet operational
[12:38:46 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist1> ok
[12:38:53 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist1> are you using the pluto taglib snapshot?
[12:38:57 CDT(-0500)] <athena> no (smile)
[12:39:02 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist1> that would be why (smile)
[12:39:09 CDT(-0500)] <athena> well cool then, i'll just do that update (smile)
[12:39:18 CDT(-0500)] <athena> and then if it works i can cut a new tag of the portlet
[12:39:18 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist1> brb
[12:58:30 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> ok pluto-taglib released
[12:58:40 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> cutting a release of simple CMS
[12:59:39 CDT(-0500)] <athena> hurray (smile)
[12:59:58 CDT(-0500)] <athena> so i guess actually i'll need to do that in the overlay rather than in the project?
[13:00:05 CDT(-0500)] <athena> since that portlet isn't portlet 2.0 yet
[13:00:26 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> do what?
[13:01:08 CDT(-0500)] <athena> er, sorry, include the pluto-taglib jar
[13:01:11 CDT(-0500)] <athena> for the widgets
[13:01:19 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> oh, that never gets included by a portlet
[13:01:24 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> uportal installs it in shared/lib
[13:01:38 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> things will go poorly if a portlet has any pluto libs in webinf/lib
[13:01:45 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> also simple CMS is a 2.0 portlet (smile)
[13:13:32 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> athena: you there?
[13:13:39 CDT(-0500)] <athena> yes
[13:13:44 CDT(-0500)] <athena> sorry, got distracted (smile)
[13:13:46 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> do we need a release of resource server?
[13:13:52 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> trunk is using 21-SNAPSHOT
[13:14:03 CDT(-0500)] <athena> i think we have a 21 release now
[13:14:08 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> oh right
[13:14:09 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> we do
[13:14:10 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> sorry
[13:14:13 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> sleep deprived
[13:14:20 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> thinking that 21-snapshot becomes 22 (tongue)
[13:14:32 CDT(-0500)] <athena> yeah i do that sometimes too
[13:14:34 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> if you do a svn update of trunk
[13:14:39 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> and a deploy year
[13:14:40 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> ear
[13:14:41 CDT(-0500)] <athena> cutting releases of the news and calendar portlets
[13:14:41 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> actually
[13:14:42 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> wait
[13:14:52 CDT(-0500)] <athena> doesn't really matter for uportal, but we could update the news reader dep if we want
[13:14:53 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> I'll have the simple cms portlet changes out soon too
[13:14:57 CDT(-0500)] <athena> oh ok (smile)
[13:14:59 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> I'm fine with that
[13:27:02 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> poor bamboo
[13:27:08 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> always behind on the new releases (tongue)
[13:34:44 CDT(-0500)] <athena> aww
[13:42:47 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> hrm, so gadgets still aren't working
[13:42:51 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> looks like a url generation problem
[13:52:58 CDT(-0500)] <athena> ok
[13:53:01 CDT(-0500)] <athena> i can take a look
[13:54:49 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> no
[13:54:54 CDT(-0500)] <athena> ergh, taglib isn't synced yet (smile)
[13:54:55 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> I've got it
[13:55:06 CDT(-0500)] <athena> ok (smile)
[13:55:25 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> it is a side-effect of my resource url changes
[13:56:18 CDT(-0500)] <athena> ah
[13:56:22 CDT(-0500)] <athena> gotcha
[14:17:31 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> gadgets work (smile)
[14:20:13 CDT(-0500)] <athena> yay
[14:20:22 CDT(-0500)] <athena> i really kind of think it's a silly feature
[14:20:33 CDT(-0500)] <athena> but so many people have asked for it i figure we might as well be able to demonstrate it
[14:20:42 CDT(-0500)] <athena> really annoying that you can't have a flexible width
[14:20:52 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> yeah
[14:20:57 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> well iframes do kinda suck
[14:21:02 CDT(-0500)] <athena> they do indeed (smile)
[14:21:12 CDT(-0500)] <peanutb> just proxify things
[14:21:26 CDT(-0500)] <peanutb> it will look much better (smile)
[14:21:29 CDT(-0500)] <athena> yep
[14:21:31 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> do you think you'd have some time to fill in bullet points for new features you've worked on here: https://wiki.jasig.org/display/UPC/4.0
[14:21:34 CDT(-0500)] <peanutb> it will increase server load though
[14:21:38 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> under the Release Notes section
[14:21:38 CDT(-0500)] <athena> except gadgets don't work that way
[14:21:45 CDT(-0500)] <athena> yep, i can do that
[14:21:48 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> thanks
[14:21:56 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> I have to run and take elsa to the dr
[14:22:01 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> peanutb: true but not by much
[14:22:08 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> the web proxy portlet is quite efficient
[14:22:23 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> can't wait for re-writing that thing as a 286 portlet to trickle down
[14:22:38 CDT(-0500)] <peanutb> ah good to hear
[14:22:42 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> so I think the only open issue I have before getting 4 GA out is the windows unit test issue
[14:23:00 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> peanutb: the proxy portlet does pull-based SAX parsing of the HTML markup its proxying
[14:23:05 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> re-writing it on the fly
[14:23:13 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> we use it A LOT at UW
[14:23:26 CDT(-0500)] <peanutb> so myuw is uportal?
[14:23:29 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> and I don't think I've ever seen it make a blip on the profiling tests we've done
[14:23:30 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> yes
[14:23:50 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> we run my.wisc.edu, my.wisconsin.edu, and public.my.wisc.edu off of a 4 server cluster
[14:24:00 CDT(-0500)] <peanutb> oh wisconsin
[14:24:09 CDT(-0500)] <peanutb> im actually a student at the other UW...
[14:24:10 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> ah right
[14:24:10 CDT(-0500)] <peanutb> Washington
[14:24:12 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> (smile)
[14:24:14 CDT(-0500)] <athena> ah!
[14:24:20 CDT(-0500)] * athena is a grad student there, in fact
[14:24:24 CDT(-0500)] <peanutb> our portal is some kind of inhouse built thing
[14:24:27 CDT(-0500)] <peanutb> funn
[14:24:28 CDT(-0500)] <athena> but no, that's a custom thing
[14:24:32 CDT(-0500)] <athena> definitely not uportal
[14:24:36 CDT(-0500)] <athena> though i personally wish it were
[14:24:38 CDT(-0500)] <peanutb> yepp. wish it was though
[14:24:57 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> now that classes are starting again our daily login counts are going up nicely
[14:25:06 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> already at 68k logins today (tongue)
[14:25:07 CDT(-0500)] <peanutb> so im trying to convince Shorleine CC (where i did my associates) that they should implement CAS
[14:25:15 CDT(-0500)] <athena> oh cool
[14:25:26 CDT(-0500)] <peanutb> but they dont have any java knowledge
[14:25:30 CDT(-0500)] <athena> CAS is good stuff
[14:25:33 CDT(-0500)] <peanutb> they seem to avoid it like the plague
[14:25:43 CDT(-0500)] <peanutb> its all ASP.NET is the king
[14:25:54 CDT(-0500)] <athena> well, unicon does offer installation and support for CAS (smile)
[14:26:14 CDT(-0500)] <peanutb> hmm
[14:26:26 CDT(-0500)] <athena> and training and such
[14:26:29 CDT(-0500)] <peanutb> maybe i should talk to them
[14:26:31 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> and I will say its likely way easier to install and support than may other SSO systems
[14:26:37 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> (looking at pubcookie and shib)
[14:26:46 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> though we are moving everything to shib
[14:26:51 CDT(-0500)] <athena> peanutb: i work for unicon, so if you need someone to talk to, just let me know
[14:27:02 CDT(-0500)] <peanutb> yeah shibbolith seems like the prefered thing
[14:27:12 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> shib is great for federated auth
[14:27:14 CDT(-0500)] <athena> aaand we also do shibboleth as well
[14:27:16 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> which is why we're moving to it
[14:27:17 CDT(-0500)] <holdorph> as well as apetro and myself are also unicon employees
[14:27:17 CDT(-0500)] <peanutb> im still not entirely sure how shibbolith and CAS work together
[14:27:29 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> Wisconsin has like 20 campuses
[14:27:30 CDT(-0500)] <athena> but yeah, shib is architecutrally really cool and interesting, and is also indeed harder to set up than CAS
[14:27:33 CDT(-0500)] <holdorph> and apetro gets a lot of the CAS work, poke poke.
[14:27:36 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> and we all need to login to each others stuff
[14:27:42 CDT(-0500)] <peanutb> ah that makes sense
[14:27:48 CDT(-0500)] <peanutb> other UW grrr.
[14:27:53 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> lol
[14:27:56 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> howdy
[14:28:01 CDT(-0500)] <athena> yes, it really confuses my google results sometimes
[14:28:03 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> I felt a tugging. Here I am.
[14:28:05 CDT(-0500)] <athena> i'm like no, that's eric's UW
[14:28:22 CDT(-0500)] <peanutb> the main issue im encountering is that the e-learning department is like "blackbaord learn is a portal, why dont we use it"
[14:28:28 CDT(-0500)] <holdorph> apetro: you can read back. we were just telling peanutb that unicon offers CAS support services
[14:28:35 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> tho for CAS excellence, you really want wgthom , also a Unicon employee.
[14:28:49 CDT(-0500)] <holdorph> i didn't see wgthom on this channel
[14:28:53 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> ok, got to run, back in a few hours, I'll take a pass at the release notes this evening as well athena and then pass them on to JimH
[14:28:56 CDT(-0500)] <athena> depends on your definition of portal - not a standards-compliant portal that will allow you to plug in a bunch of open source components
[14:28:59 CDT(-0500)] <peanutb> perhaps we should change the name of this channel to #unicon (tongue)
[14:28:59 CDT(-0500)] <athena> sounds good EricDalquist
[14:29:00 CDT(-0500)] <holdorph> you were (smile)
[14:29:00 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> he just left holdorph
[14:29:03 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> he is not. But he's on the #jasig-cas channel.
[14:29:36 CDT(-0500)] <holdorph> unicon provides support on uportal as well
[14:29:40 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> peanutb it's a funny joke, but it's also important and interesting that Jasig != Unicon, CAS != Unicon, uPortal != Unicon
[14:29:42 CDT(-0500)] <holdorph> that's why you find a lot of us here too.
[14:30:03 CDT(-0500)] <peanutb> yeah I gathered that
[14:30:03 CDT(-0500)] <peanutb> (smile)
[14:30:21 CDT(-0500)] <holdorph> we try to be involved in the community without owning the entire community.
[14:30:26 CDT(-0500)] <athena> we do a lot of development planning and such in here, so good to lurk to stay in touch
[14:30:31 CDT(-0500)] <peanutb> thats a good way to put it
[14:30:38 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> CAS has a wider and living community of which Unicon is a citizen. I hope a good citizen, and I hope Unicon has much to offer you, but there are other, public resources associated with CAS as well. cas-user@ email list. Etc.
[14:31:38 CDT(-0500)] <peanutb> I was just making a joke because of the sheer number of unicon employees in here. but I think its a good thing. Most projects have for-profit loosely associated companies to offer implementation and support
[14:32:13 CDT(-0500)] <peanutb> Im kind of intreagued by the Jasig mobile app piece too
[14:32:32 CDT(-0500)] <peanutb> especially considering the prices that ehm blackboard ehm is charging
[14:33:19 CDT(-0500)] <holdorph> well if you ever want a topic to get athena excited about. it would be the uportal mobile work.
[14:33:24 CDT(-0500)] <athena> yes!
[14:33:27 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> definitely got 'em beaten on license fees
[14:33:34 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> come for the free software, stay for the community.
[14:33:47 CDT(-0500)] <athena> there's already a umobile quickstart available for download if you want to try it out
[14:34:08 CDT(-0500)] <athena> and we'll have a general release of 1.0 available very soon (this week, hopefully)
[14:34:18 CDT(-0500)] <athena> but more than happy to answer any questions you have about that
[14:35:12 CDT(-0500)] <athena> short video demo here, too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7WZujTzb1Q
[14:35:36 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> oooh, I see peanutb asked about CAS-and-shibboleth, giving me an excuse to post a link to my blog: http://www.unicon.net/blog/apetro/cas_and_shibboleth . A controversial viewpoint, perhaps, but it's a fair summary of how Unicon's solving problems for clients using both in concert.
[14:39:01 CDT(-0500)] <peanutb> apetro: yeah.. by about 50k a year...
[14:39:09 CDT(-0500)] <athena> yep.
[14:39:21 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> interesting.
[14:39:30 CDT(-0500)] <athena> also umobile supports things like distributing content by user role out of the box
[14:40:27 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> at the risk of a rant, I'll say this: I don't see open source software as mostly about cheapness. I'd love for you to invest $50K a year in mobile experiences built in collaboration with others in an open source software project. It's a matter of what you get for your money, the control, the relationship to the software, the sustainability.
[14:40:54 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> Build software and community, not yachts, as it were.
[14:41:00 CDT(-0500)] <athena> quite true - with open source it's easier to collaborate with other schools on cool new features, make changes to it to suit your institution, etc.
[14:42:07 CDT(-0500)] <peanutb> apetro: right, but its hard to justify putting employee-time into contributing to open source projects when theres already issues with not enough staffing and pretty slim budgets
[14:42:47 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> no disagreement there. Resources do seem tight these days.
[14:43:29 CDT(-0500)] <athena> you actually can adopt something like umobile or cas or uportal w/o contributing back - though it's always great to be able to participate
[14:43:45 CDT(-0500)] <athena> sometimes contributing back actually saves time, since you don't wind up having to maintain custom patches/features
[14:43:59 CDT(-0500)] <peanutb> so thats why a small college would hire Unicon... to do the adaptation, with the espectation that they would continue to support the community
[14:44:02 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> athena, uMobile still ships with a CAS server by default, right? So, it's like a two-fer. (smile)
[14:44:21 CDT(-0500)] <athena> well, it's actually turned off at the moment, but is easily re-included
[14:44:23 CDT(-0500)] <peanutb> wow im failing at typing today
[14:44:43 CDT(-0500)] <athena> yes, sometimes we help schools contribute back and participate in the open source community
[14:45:23 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> peanutb exactly right. You engage Unicon to act as the vendor of the software and provide the services you expect from vendors. Plan the implementation. Install, configure, brand, extend. Ongoing technical support.
[14:45:59 CDT(-0500)] <athena> and also have a way for schools to pool resources and vote on things to contribute to the main project
[14:46:13 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> and yes, the best projects are structured to yield enhancements back into the open source software; the support program has built-in capacity to work on making the open source software more supportable (which support subscribers get to influence)
[14:47:40 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> It's not an either-or proposition. You're encouraged to participate directly in the open source projects as much as you can. You're encouraged (at least, encouraged by Unicon) to rely on Unicon for whatever you don't want to staff locally.
[15:47:21 CDT(-0500)] <holdorph> athena: did you see this news article (sprint suing blackboard over the mobile app) http://t.co/ByPTiwu
[15:48:59 CDT(-0500)] <athena> nope
[15:49:27 CDT(-0500)] <athena> heh
[15:49:38 CDT(-0500)] <athena> yikes (smile)
[15:49:49 CDT(-0500)] <holdorph> yeah, what a mess.
[15:50:06 CDT(-0500)] <athena> no kidding
[15:50:13 CDT(-0500)] <holdorph> but the interesting part to me was the 3 million they're holding back and the comments about how they 'subsidized' the building of the mobile at
[15:50:15 CDT(-0500)] <holdorph> app
[15:50:21 CDT(-0500)] <athena> yeah
[15:50:28 CDT(-0500)] <athena> hadn't heard about that
[15:50:30 CDT(-0500)] <holdorph> do you think we spent MORE then 3 million on developing uMobile?
[15:50:41 CDT(-0500)] <athena> lol
[15:50:48 CDT(-0500)] <holdorph> talk about inefficient
[15:51:08 CDT(-0500)] <holdorph> or maybe that's 3 million to pay for all the lawyer fees.
[15:51:14 CDT(-0500)] <athena> hm, maybe (smile)
[15:52:34 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> apparently Sprint will eventually owe Blackboard more than $50M?
[15:53:30 CDT(-0500)] <holdorph> wow, i didn't make it that far in the article. dang. unreal.
[15:54:01 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> Seems like a pretty bad deal from Sprint's perspective. I question the whole premise. Student's don't make cell network decisions based on whether it has a free mobile app to access their school's LMS. They enter school with existing loyalties, and presumably care more about choice of handset (iPhone) and viability of network coverage.
[15:54:27 CDT(-0500)] <athena> and existing contracts, and often are on their parents contracts
[15:54:44 CDT(-0500)] <athena> as a student that would irritate me, not make me switch providers
[15:54:46 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> Also, for what school would a mobile platform with an app that only works on Sprint be an acceptable solution?
[15:54:58 CDT(-0500)] <athena> also not helpful to schools that want to be in X app store
[15:55:08 CDT(-0500)] <holdorph> while it does seem silly on sprint's part
[15:55:27 CDT(-0500)] <holdorph> the part where blackboard ignores the intent of the contract and says "wifi is not the cell network" is slimy too
[15:56:18 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> definitely slimy. I mean, it's a bad contract, the whole premise of the bargain is flawed.
[15:57:31 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> Normally I root for the underdog, but this makes me happy I'm not a Sprint customer. Don't want to be supporting companies that subsidize proprietary software models that go out of their way to seek broken business models. (smile)
[15:58:06 CDT(-0500)] <holdorph> you don't want to be supporting companies that subsize proprietary software models?
[15:58:13 CDT(-0500)] <holdorph> so does that mean you're not going to buy a mac?
[15:58:56 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> may have to make an exception for the mac, despite their slimy exclusivity stuff with AT&T.
[15:59:15 CDT(-0500)] <athena> at least no one is forcing you to buy a mac though
[15:59:26 CDT(-0500)] <athena> can still access all the same online resources
[15:59:43 CDT(-0500)] <holdorph> it's not forcing
[15:59:45 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> only my self-respect is impelling me towards more productive infrastructure (smile)
[15:59:50 CDT(-0500)] <holdorph> apetro said he didn't want to support it at all
[16:00:28 CDT(-0500)] <holdorph> let me know how that mac is making you more productive when you need to access jdk 7
[16:03:44 CDT(-0500)] <peanutb> commenting on the sprint-blackboard thing. it was super weird seeing blackboard give a sales pitch for "well if you subscribe to our app, we will make it work on carriers other than sprint"
[16:04:43 CDT(-0500)] <peanutb> blackboard seems like a king at inflating prices...
[16:37:21 CDT(-0500)] <athena> EricDalquist: ok for me to check in the news reader dependency update?
[16:37:51 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> yup
[16:37:55 CDT(-0500)] <athena> ok
[16:38:21 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> thanks for updating the release notes page too
[16:38:32 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> If you're done I'm going to take a pass through it as well
[16:40:27 CDT(-0500)] <athena> yep
[16:40:30 CDT(-0500)] <athena> go for it
[16:40:38 CDT(-0500)] <athena> some of those could probably be worded better too
[16:40:40 CDT(-0500)] <athena> brain is fried
[16:41:05 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> so I was just looking at the google translate api
[16:41:09 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> we could still use it
[16:41:15 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> and still create a m2 plugin
[16:41:24 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> and just have jasig pay for usage
[16:41:55 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> its $20 per million characters translated
[16:42:21 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> so if the actual translation process was only run periodically that wouldn't be bad at all
[16:43:55 CDT(-0500)] <athena> ah, cool
[16:43:57 CDT(-0500)] <athena> that's good to know
[16:44:31 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> seems like especially if other projects want to use it that that would be a reasonable use of jasig funds
[16:44:39 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> especially if it is billed per month
[16:44:40 CDT(-0500)] <athena> yeah
[16:44:48 CDT(-0500)] <athena> that's really not a lot of money i wouldn't think
[16:44:59 CDT(-0500)] <athena> probably need to figure out how to limit usage of the key to jasig projects, or something like that
[16:45:14 CDT(-0500)] <athena> i also had some code that just reported missing keys, which is useful on its own
[16:45:24 CDT(-0500)] <athena> might have to rewrite that - think i lost that in the last hard drive uhoh
[16:45:28 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> yup
[16:45:29 CDT(-0500)] <athena> but not a big deal
[16:45:32 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> yeah I think a plugin with two goals
[16:45:36 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> one that reports on missing keys
[16:45:41 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> and another that does the translation
[16:45:49 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> and requires the google account info on the command line
[16:45:55 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> so people don't accidentally check it in
[16:46:04 CDT(-0500)] <athena> yep
[16:46:10 CDT(-0500)] <athena> that totally makes sense
[16:46:12 CDT(-0500)] <athena> should be doable
[16:46:18 CDT(-0500)] <athena> can probably go clean up that code again
[16:46:19 CDT(-0500)] <athena> (smile)
[16:46:48 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> yeah so there are currently 21k characters in Messages.properties
[16:46:52 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> and that includes the keys
[16:46:55 CDT(-0500)] <athena> yeah (smile)
[16:47:07 CDT(-0500)] <athena> and we only need to translate new keys at any given time
[16:47:13 CDT(-0500)] <athena> the code doesn't retranslate stuff
[16:47:14 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> yup
[16:47:26 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> well good to keep in mind then
[16:47:30 CDT(-0500)] <athena> cool (smile)
[16:47:35 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> I think that would be an easy sell to the board
[16:47:49 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> and the supporting code both in theplugin and uportal we can work on to make it easy for portlets to use use
[16:47:55 CDT(-0500)] <athena> yeah
[16:48:03 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> since once we get uportal all i18n happy portlets will be next
[16:48:08 CDT(-0500)] <athena> yes, totally
[16:51:21 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> doesn't re-translate. So if an English message is improved, say, that doesn't automatically propogate to the other languages, but it will if one deletes the prior translations from those languages' message files?
[16:51:46 CDT(-0500)] <athena> yes
[16:52:06 CDT(-0500)] <athena> english message being improved doesn't necessarily mean that the other (say spanish) message needed improving
[16:52:15 CDT(-0500)] <athena> also, we're using message keys that are essentially the english string
[16:52:23 CDT(-0500)] <athena> so if the string were changed substantially, we'd probably change the key as well
[16:52:34 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> that sounds a pretty simple solution, actually. Either judgment (my existing translations are lovingly handcrafted so don't mess with them, or they were auto-generated crud anyway so by all means take another shot is in reach.
[16:53:06 CDT(-0500)] * apetro looks forward to running this plugin on CAS
[16:53:09 CDT(-0500)] <athena> well, we don't track whether the message value has been changed, so easier to do what we're doing now
[16:53:46 CDT(-0500)] <athena> we take all the keys from the master (english) file, then translate and add messages for any keys that are missing from the target language file
[16:53:53 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> wonder what happens if we run it on the CAS manual documentation docbook source files (smile)
[16:53:56 CDT(-0500)] <athena> so it doesn't really know if an english message has been updated - just if more have been added
[16:54:19 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> but like you said, most likely any "updated" english message will result in a new key
[16:54:29 CDT(-0500)] <athena> yeah
[16:54:29 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> since the key is very close to the english message
[16:54:37 CDT(-0500)] <athena> and we want to make sure we don't copy over fixed messages
[16:54:38 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> it sounds better than fine. I like.
[16:54:46 CDT(-0500)] <athena> i know shoji said the japanese translation was really pretty bad (smile)
[16:54:58 CDT(-0500)] <athena> dunno how the other languages have been
[16:55:12 CDT(-0500)] <athena> coudl be that this winds up not worth doing, who knows
[16:55:16 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> yeah I'd guess they will be ok for french,spanish,german
[16:55:20 CDT(-0500)] <athena> but suspect maybe it works better for romance languages
[16:55:20 CDT(-0500)] <athena> yeah
[16:55:24 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> but as you get further from english they'll get worse
[16:55:31 CDT(-0500)] <athena> hard because the messages are short, so probably woudl be better w/ more context
[16:55:31 CDT(-0500)] <athena> yeah
[16:55:36 CDT(-0500)] <athena> but hopefully still worth doing
[16:55:38 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> yup
[16:55:41 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> I think so
[16:55:47 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> if nothing else for the RFP check box
[16:55:48 CDT(-0500)] <athena> and it'll be nice to be able to report missing ones
[16:55:49 CDT(-0500)] <athena> yep
[16:55:58 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> plus the infrastructure to make it easier for others to translate
[16:56:06 CDT(-0500)] <athena> i translated uportal to gaelic for kris and it made her really happy
[16:56:10 CDT(-0500)] <athena> so hey, that's a feature in my book.
[16:56:23 CDT(-0500)] <apetro> happy's good.
[16:56:33 CDT(-0500)] <athena> would be good if we could start getting translated portlet/tab titles, CMS content, etc.
[16:56:39 CDT(-0500)] <athena> that's kind of a big visual hole right now
[16:56:46 CDT(-0500)] <athena> doesn't make for a great out of the box demo
[16:57:20 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> yeah :/
[16:57:33 CDT(-0500)] <athena> that's why i never added the localization portlet to the guest view like we planned
[16:58:07 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> well hopefully once we address the layout refactoring we'll have that
[16:58:13 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> and the portlet support is there in theory
[16:58:17 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> we just need to test it out
[16:58:17 CDT(-0500)] <athena> yeah
[16:58:20 CDT(-0500)] <EricDalquist> and get translated portlets
[16:58:22 CDT(-0500)] <athena> yep