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[00:46:16 EDT(-0400)] * EiNZTEiN (n=einztein@dsl-162.isunet.net) has joined ##uportal
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[09:02:26 EDT(-0400)] * esm (n=esm@128.220.212.115) has joined ##uportal
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[09:27:30 EDT(-0400)] * EricDalquist (n=EricDalq@adsl-76-208-71-170.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net) has joined ##uportal
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[09:27:54 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> good morning
[09:28:02 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> hello
[09:28:25 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> the east coast happens too early in the morning
[09:28:42 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> lol
[09:38:27 EDT(-0400)] <dstn> morning!
[09:38:54 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> almost done with a database backed stats recorder
[09:39:20 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> oh nice!!
[09:39:26 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> that sounds great
[09:39:29 EDT(-0400)] <dstn> sweetness
[09:39:44 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> yeah, I still need to figure out how to have another hibernate context so it can go to its own database
[09:40:23 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> as we learned running pretty much the same code here you end up with A LOT of data
[09:40:38 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> ah
[09:40:53 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> unfortunatly we still don't have any reporting tools for the data ... hopefully someone else that wants DB based stats logging can work that out
[10:13:28 EDT(-0400)] <dstn> anyone know if its possible to save your open tabs explicitly when closing firefox ... sort of like when it crashes and you can restore the session?
[10:13:39 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> no
[10:13:45 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> I wish there was though
[10:13:48 EDT(-0400)] <dstn> likewise
[10:13:53 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> what I've done if I really care is kill -9 it
[10:13:55 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> i think there's a tabs plugin that might do some session handling?
[10:14:04 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> someone was talking about it the other day
[10:15:02 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> ok it's built-in
[10:15:05 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> go to main preferences
[10:15:11 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> and look at "when firefox starts"
[10:15:23 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> there's an option to show windows and tabs from the last session
[10:15:28 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> ah
[10:15:30 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> neat
[10:15:30 EDT(-0400)] <esm> yep
[10:15:34 EDT(-0400)] <esm> pretty nice
[10:16:03 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> anyone ever test the guest preferenes patch?
[10:16:19 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> going to today
[10:16:53 EDT(-0400)] <dstn> just changed it that preferences, works nicely
[10:17:00 EDT(-0400)] <dstn> me happy
[10:19:14 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> changed it that preferences?
[10:20:10 EDT(-0400)] <dstn> whoa, ya, just read that..too much coffee
[10:20:16 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> lol
[10:20:24 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> i thought maybe i'd had not enough
[10:20:30 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> coffee requires moving, though . . .
[10:20:46 EDT(-0400)] <dstn> I meant to say I just changed that in preferences and it works nicely
[10:21:01 EDT(-0400)] <dstn> the firefox preferences
[10:22:52 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> oh cool
[10:23:46 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> hey esm
[10:23:49 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> I'm looking @ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/PLUTO-487
[10:24:02 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> I'm trying to figure out exactly why the preferences impl needs to call store every time it is created
[10:24:34 EDT(-0400)] <esm> I am not sure. I'm not very familiar with the preference code.
[10:24:38 EDT(-0400)] <esm> Does it really need to?
[10:24:59 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> so PLT.14.1 says this in the last paragraph:
[10:25:00 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> The PortletPreferences object must reflect the current values of the persistent store
[10:25:00 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> when the portlet container invokes the processAction and render methods of the
[10:25:00 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> portlet
[10:25:36 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> but I read that more as 'the container must always ensure the 'newest' prefs are loaded'
[10:27:29 EDT(-0400)] * esm opens up the code
[10:28:26 EDT(-0400)] <esm> what's the disticition between "newest prefs loaded" versus "current values of the persistent store"
[10:28:54 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> sorry, just my miswording
[10:29:56 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> I'm only seeing wording that the container must ensure the preferences are not stale (newer prefs exist in the store)
[10:30:29 EDT(-0400)] <esm> ok yes I agree with that interpretation
[10:30:46 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> and as far as I can tell the impl without the store there would do that
[10:31:14 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> all the store in the constructor does is give the container a chance to persist the preferences from portlet.xml into its local store if it wants/needs to
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[10:31:34 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> but the container (or portal) could do this anyways since that information is available from the PortletDD
[10:31:50 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> I'll write this all up in an email to pluto dev too ...
[10:33:58 EDT(-0400)] <esm> right the only thing I see is that if there is a default preference that is not in the persistent store, internalStore() would store it.
[10:34:14 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> yup
[10:34:19 EDT(-0400)] <esm> I'm not sure where the defaultPreferences come from - they come from portlet.xml
[10:34:21 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> but since the constructor loads the default prefs every time
[10:34:27 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> yeah portlet.xml
[10:34:37 EDT(-0400)] <esm> (its been a while
[10:34:43 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> yeah
[10:36:36 EDT(-0400)] <esm> yeah, i'm not sure why it needs to call internalStore()
[10:37:19 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> you know I just realized I was wondering a while ago why uP3 seemed to be storing prefs a lot
[10:37:27 EDT(-0400)] <esm> internalStore() does validate.
[10:37:56 EDT(-0400)] <esm> which I understand all of this as we are interpreting 14.1 isn't required
[10:38:05 EDT(-0400)] <esm> i'm just going over in my mind what behaviors change
[10:38:26 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> except if you look at the call in the constructor
[10:38:35 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> the validation exception is just logged and ignored
[10:38:54 EDT(-0400)] <esm> oh of course good catch
[10:38:59 EDT(-0400)] <esm> so yah.
[10:39:07 EDT(-0400)] <esm> i can't see why it needs to be there.
[10:42:05 EDT(-0400)] <esm> the only thing I can think of is if default preferences are supplied from a different persistent store (it gets initted from the portlet entity) than the preferencesService stores them to
[10:42:24 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> yeah
[10:42:38 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> but the portal can still hook into that if it needs to
[10:42:45 EDT(-0400)] <esm> right, no i agree
[10:42:57 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> it is unfortunate that it would be a behavior change
[10:43:02 EDT(-0400)] <esm> yes
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[10:43:10 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> but I think the current behavior likely is very close to a noop
[10:43:20 EDT(-0400)] <esm> also agree
[10:43:34 EDT(-0400)] <esm> anyone who is relying on this behavior probably knows enough to fix it
[10:43:41 EDT(-0400)] <esm> or maybe not
[10:43:41 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> an expensive noop at that
[10:43:46 EDT(-0400)] <esm> yes
[10:43:55 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> or maybe not?
[10:44:37 EDT(-0400)] <esm> well i mean the person who relys on that behavior probably doesn't know that they are relying on an implementation detail.
[10:44:46 EDT(-0400)] <esm> but I don't think that should prevent us from taking it out
[10:44:53 EDT(-0400)] <esm> s/us/you/
[10:45:27 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> yeah
[10:45:35 EDT(-0400)] <esm> if anyone complains on the list after 1.1.6 (or whatever is released next) about this behavior change... it can be dealt with then
[10:46:25 EDT(-0400)] <esm> and if the behavior change is noted in the jira issue or whatever i don't see it as a problem
[10:46:45 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> cool
[10:47:00 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> I'll have to see what the original reporter says
[10:47:24 EDT(-0400)] <esm> excellent yeah a few reports have come in recently
[10:47:27 EDT(-0400)] <esm> so that is good i guess
[10:47:36 EDT(-0400)] <esm> people are using teh software
[10:47:58 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> always a good sign
[10:50:13 EDT(-0400)] <MarkRogers> what's a noop?
[10:50:54 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> no operation
[10:51:04 EDT(-0400)] <MarkRogers> thanks
[10:51:18 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> noop is generally an instruction in assembly operations
[10:51:26 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> telling the CPU to just 'do nothing for a cycle'
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[10:51:43 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> if I remember that class correctly
[10:52:06 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> yay wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NOP
[10:53:18 EDT(-0400)] <esm> the noop slide is an older school hacking technique
[10:53:51 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> sticking instructions in the code where noops were?
[10:55:45 EDT(-0400)] <esm> better than i can explain: http://www.phreedom.org/solar/honeynet/scan20/scan20.html
[10:56:02 EDT(-0400)] <MarkRogers> geez, it's harder to do nothing than I thought ... I need to show this to my wife right away!
[10:56:10 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> lol
[10:56:15 EDT(-0400)] <esm> lol very funny
[10:56:15 EDT(-0400)] <dstn> its used a lot in exploit writing ... you nop slide to some exploit code
[10:56:37 EDT(-0400)] <esm> right
[10:56:53 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> ah yeah, padd before the exploit code with noops
[10:56:58 EDT(-0400)] <esm> as long as the return point is somewhere in the nop slide
[10:57:04 EDT(-0400)] <dstn> yep yep
[10:57:06 EDT(-0400)] <esm> it "slides" to teh execution of the shell code
[10:57:29 EDT(-0400)] <dstn> ya since its hard to tell where it will jump too everytime
[10:57:33 EDT(-0400)] <esm> yup
[10:57:58 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> yay buffer exploits
[10:58:22 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> one of the many reasons I like type-safe vm based languages
[10:58:44 EDT(-0400)] <esm> if you ever want an ass-kicking in networking and intrusion detection, take the SANS IDS course - if they haven't watered it down.
[10:58:59 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> heh, not really my forte
[10:59:09 EDT(-0400)] <esm> tcpdump is one of the most awesome programs around
[10:59:17 EDT(-0400)] <esm> right so that's why you go
[10:59:34 EDT(-0400)] <dstn> SANs is awesome
[10:59:57 EDT(-0400)] <dstn> unfortunately extremely $$ though
[11:00:12 EDT(-0400)] <esm> yup
[11:00:20 EDT(-0400)] <esm> i went in 02 and 03 IIRC
[11:00:29 EDT(-0400)] <esm> but those things get watered down when they get popular
[11:00:46 EDT(-0400)] <dstn> I hope I can go to some SANs training in my lifetime
[11:00:51 EDT(-0400)] <esm> people who have no clue take the courses to get certified, and when they pay big money and don't pass organizations get pissy
[11:01:00 EDT(-0400)] <dstn> lol I bet
[11:01:08 EDT(-0400)] <dstn> I want to get CISSP
[11:01:35 EDT(-0400)] <esm> to get certified you used to have to do exams plus a paper. The bar for the papers has been watered down.
[11:01:49 EDT(-0400)] <esm> yes if you can ever go, take the IDS track.
[11:02:26 EDT(-0400)] <esm> two days of TCP/IP ass-kicking then they start the course
[11:23:07 EDT(-0400)] <dstn> ...waits for poor fisheye
[11:23:17 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> :/
[11:23:20 EDT(-0400)] <dstn> it seems worse than usual as of late
[11:23:32 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> one of these days i'm going to draw a caricature of fisheye
[11:24:02 EDT(-0400)] <dstn> haha, that'd be great
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[11:32:50 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> http://www.ja-sig.org/wiki/display/UPM30/03+Eclipse+Build+Environment
[11:33:04 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> how does that look for a 'developing uportal from eclipse' page
[11:35:07 EDT(-0400)] <athena7> looks good to me
[11:35:36 EDT(-0400)] <esm> excellent
[11:41:56 EDT(-0400)] <dstn> subclipse may be useful to add to that mix
[11:42:24 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> yes
[11:42:27 EDT(-0400)] <EricDalquist> feel free to add it
[11:43:43 EDT(-0400)] <dstn> k k